#424 A line performed by the late Notorious B.I.G. in Puff Daddy's song "Victory" goes: "trying to make dough like Jurassic Park did." (From: jurassiraptor) Prev - Next
"Spectre (Bond 24)" On 12/4/2014 at 11:58:25 AM, Seth Rex started the thread: Well as of today the new Bond film is titled Spectre. Discuss.
Msg #1: On 12/4/2014 at 12:33:01 PM, Bryan replied, saying: At fucking last. I cannot wait to see what they do with Blofeld. As a huge Bond fan, I can tell you that with Mendes behind the wheel of SPECTRE's return to the franchise and Craig out in front delighting the fans and the masses equally, I haven't been this excited over a Bond announcement since ever. Goddamn but it's a great time to be a fan!
Msg #2: On 12/4/2014 at 12:50:19 PM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: 2015 man
EDIT: Since no one else mentioned it, Christoph Waltz is playing Blofeld, which is great, but I also thought Javier Bardem would be great, too, and he wound just being a gay version of the Joker.
Msg #5: On 12/4/2014 at 7:28:49 PM, Bryan replied, saying: I still haven't quite figured out this hate or indifference for the Craig-era (Quantum excluded), considering that tonally they're far more accurate to Fleming's novels than anyone else's run. I think EoN has done an amazing job with the last few movies. Does Daniel completely embody Bond? No, but neither has anybody else. His Bond, however, has been all about growth and I have faith that, in the hands of these talented people, we will see Craig as a completely realized Fleming Bond. Replies: 6
Msg #6: On 12/4/2014 at 7:44:01 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #5, saying: Bardem's villain, whatever his name was, had nothing to do with the kinds of bad guys Bond goes up against in the Fleming novels and the film as a whole was just really glum and gray and no fun at all. I've always liked Casino Royale and I was willing to forgive Quantum of Solace as a mulligan of bad writing as the series tried to find its footing after the initial reboot origin story, but Skyfall simply did not feel like a James Bond story, at least after the early scenes in China. By the time they installed Ralph Fiennes as the new M and set it up for Bond to finally take on SPECTRE, I realized they were still doing the origin story three movies in. Give me Goldfinger any day. At least I don't have to feel invested in some kind of tragic saga to enjoy a cool spy getting hammered and electrocuting a guy in a gold vault. Replies: 8
Msg #7: On 12/4/2014 at 8:28:11 PM, Bryan replied, saying: Ream me if you will, but I am among the few who is not impressed with Goldfinger. In the end, Bond does nothing to change the outcome of the story except seduce a lesbian pilot into becoming his sex kitten. Gert Frobe's Goldfinger is iconic, sure, but From Russia with Love is far and away a more enjoyable romp, and certainly more worthy of acclaim.
Msg #8: On 12/4/2014 at 8:36:58 PM, Raptor Vinny replied to Msg #6, saying: The 70s are over Ostromite.
What does that have to do with anything I said?
Msg #12: On 12/4/2014 at 9:21:37 PM, RezForPrez replied, saying: HE MEANS THAT YOU HATE EVERYTHING MADE AFTER 1980 AND THAT YOU ARE IMPLYING THAT BOND SHOULD BE A CERTAIN WAY AND WHAT'S WRONG WITH A LITTLE VARIETY.
OBVIOUSLY THE FIRST PART IS NOT TRUE BUT THE SECOND PART MIGHT BE.
I FOR ONE AM AN ALLIGATOR. Replies: 13, 15
Msg #13: On 12/4/2014 at 9:25:30 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #12, saying: Bryan said these new films are close to Fleming's original novels but I don't think they really are. Craig's interpretation of the character might be, but the films overall, especially Skyfall, are not. I honestly don't really care if they take Bond in new directions as long as the movies don't take themselves too seriously or rip off other big blockbuster action films.
Msg #14: On 12/4/2014 at 9:33:28 PM, Carnotaur3 replied, saying: I feel Casino Royale and Skyfall were awesome, Royale beating out Skyfall because... well, those damn action scenes were great. I don't think I've seen any action scene as real or as dangerous as the one on the damn crane in any film thus far.
Feels like the most atmospheric, foreboding Bond ever. Only Force Awakens and Jurassic World can challenge my feelings on this. Fucking phenomenal. Replies: 28
Msg #26: On 3/30/2015 at 1:24:36 AM, Bryan replied, saying: I love what I'm seeing, intrigued by the questions they're raising but I also don't know how I feel about the restraint on this trailer. This is going to be an action film. So the marketing plan is to promote everything but the action? Not a great plan.
Addendum: Before you get all high and mighty, Paul, keep in mind you and I are of the exact same opinion about the current films, and harping on me about the curious lack of action is you just being a douche. I'm remarking not on the film but on the serious promotional oversight. Replies: 27
Msg #27: On 3/30/2015 at 1:49:16 AM, JPwonderboy replied to Msg #26, saying: Isn't this considered a teaser trailer?
Msg #28: On 3/30/2015 at 3:26:52 AM, Ostromite replied to Msg #25, saying: I'm so glad our culture's evolved to the point where boys' adventures stories are "atmospheric" and "foreboding". Replies: 30
Msg #29: On 3/30/2015 at 5:17:43 AM, PaulSF replied, saying: Q: How did you go about deciding exactly what to tease in the new teaser trailer, especially given that you’re still in the middle of production?
Michael G. Wilson: We had to start it six or seven weeks ago. We wanted to create something that was a teaser and a bit of a puzzle and a mystery. From what I saw online, people are putting it together in a clever way. It’s a little puzzle that people can enjoy. http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/features/424095-cs-interview-spectre-producers-barbara-broccoli-and-michael-g-wilson#/slide/1
Msg #30: On 3/30/2015 at 5:37:16 PM, PaulSF replied to Msg #28, saying: Give me Goldfinger any day. At least I don't have to feel invested in some kind of tragic saga to enjoy a cool spy getting hammered and electrocuting a guy in a gold vault.
I'm so glad our culture's evolved to the point where boys' adventures stories are "atmospheric" and "foreboding".
Kingsman: The Secret Service is always open to you. It was entertaining enough for a one-and-done watch, but its similar set of comments at the Craig Bond films let me know that I wasn't really the target audience for it. Thank fuck I can say these things about a genre, and more especially, characters that have always possessed the potential for these qualities.
Msg #31: On 3/31/2015 at 7:50:39 AM, Narrator replied, saying: "Give me Goldfinger any day. At least I don't have to feel invested in some kind of tragic saga to enjoy a cool spy getting hammered and electrocuting a guy in a gold vault."
Paul, I'm not saying that it's a bad teaser. It's a great teaser, and it's drawing me in as a fan of Bond. It just doesn't feel particularly Bondian, and the biggest omission is a lack of action beats to get the blood going. It's tantamount to releasing a teaser for a romantic comedy but focusing only on the comedic aspects and completely ignoring the romance the film is all about in the first place. I can kinda sorta give it a pass for being simply a teaser and any fool can see it's going to be like Skyfall (which I enjoyed immensely), but I hope also that the marketing department doesn't forget they need to get the lowest common denominators in seats too if they want to make enough to keep this gravy train rolling so consistently. Replies: 36
Msg #36: On 4/1/2015 at 2:53:30 AM, PaulSF replied to Msg #35, saying: Of course they won't forget. I don't think I understand this concern. It'll be the second (full theatrical) trailer, which will bust out Dave Bautista's villainous, action-centric role. Theatrical trailers give you the full sample platter over a theatrical teaser. For now I love that they chose instead to run with the mysterious tone for an intriguing tease over more shots of fast moving transport of some kind mixed with firing guns and crashes. After Skyfall making the bank that it did, leaving every other Bond in the fucking dust, I think they now (thankfully) trust the audience enough to talk to them with some sophistication. It's also the result of putting a trailer together after barely a month and a half of filming. I pretty much appreciate everything about it.
Msg #37: On 6/10/2015 at 10:21:46 AM, Bryan replied, saying: This should have been the original teaser.
Msg #39: On 7/22/2015 at 5:16:16 PM, Carnotaur3 replied, saying: I like it.
Msg #40: On 7/23/2015 at 12:08:09 AM, Bryan replied, saying: Now that's what I'm talking about!
Msg #41: On 7/23/2015 at 4:10:14 AM, Velociraptor87 replied, saying: That's the most amazing trailer I have seen in quite some time.
Msg #42: On 7/23/2015 at 5:57:36 AM, PaulSF replied, saying: Love it. It being gorgeous was a given, but all the elements seem more in place than they have been in quite some time. Some would probably call this an unfortunate return to formula, but I think they'd be in a minority. I don't expect it to match something like Casino Royale, but this feels like it could easily be the best since. I enjoy Skyfall a lot, but it is a slight bit too dour upon re-watch. This feels a little more like it. That OHMSS theme returning. Goddam.
Msg #43: On 9/26/2015 at 12:14:04 AM, IngenRaptor replied, saying: Well the theme song is awful
Msg #44: On 11/9/2015 at 4:25:59 PM, Bryan replied, saying: Spectre is the Sam Mendes version of a classic Bond film. For all of those who felt that Skyfall brought too much weight to what should be a fairly light-hearted adventure romp, this is the movie you've been waiting for. It's got some great one-liners, more flings than Bond has had since the 90s, and more allusions to the characters illustrious past than even Die Another Day (a film, by the by, I'd rather forget).
Was it predictable? Yeah. It had a few surprises but the big one can be seen from about Mars. Could Dr. Swann have been written and performed a little more memorably (ala Eva Green's unforgettable role as Vesper Lynd)? Absolutely. I would have bought that walk off into the sunset a little better.
But Daniel Craig's Bond came to her rescue in a fucking airplane. He survived a crumbling building by landing on a sofa. He was taken to a villain's lair that harkened to the grand tradition of yore and in a way that was so Goldfinger it actually made me laugh with Paul-like glee (it was more like an understated chuckle, but I'm trying to make a point). It was fun to see that Daniel-Bond's journey really did bring him to the same paths so well-trodden by his predecessors, and had done so over three great films and one that was mediocre. When Casino Royale was finished it was hard to see how this guy could become like Sean's Bond or even Pierce's (the less said about Roger's, the better). But now the progression feels natural. I'm glad he still wasn't fully formed when Quantum or Skyfall began. He had to evolve. He had to be put through the fire. Now that he's experienced the worst pains a man can endure--the loss of one's parents, the loss of one's true love, the loss of one's mentor, not to mention the physical traumas--he emerges stripped of much of his humanity. He sees the world as the blunt instrument and it no longer truly fazes him. He's seen and been through it all. It's all about the girls, the guns, the gadgets and the booze. The James Bond we knew by the end of Dr. No is the one that greets us in the opening scene of Spectre.
Well done, Mr. Mendes. 8/10
Msg #45: On 11/14/2015 at 7:39:48 PM, PaulSF replied, saying: I'd agree with much of that. The opening alone got that glee out of me. In fact, I loved quite a bit of it as a pure Bond entertainment, but ultimately, it's essentially The World Is Not Enough of the Craig era IMO. The sophistication and atmosphere is in tact, the solid pacing inbetween action set-pieces and engaging story is spot on (despite a spectacularly dull and uninspired car chase early on), but the script (like TWINE and by the same writers Neal Purvis and Robert Wade) gets really muddled by the third act. The climax of Skyfall by comparison, much like GoldenEye, is so straightforward and all the more filled with tension for it. By the time we're hopping back and forth between Bond and the dull, familiar subplot with "C", it just feels like empty formula.
...But it's still fun formula.
I've seen it twice for the things I loved about it and will be buying it day 1 to be placed right alongside Bond 50, but I hope for the next one, they once again back away from the beat-for-beat established formula and try something more new. I remember how hilarious it was the first time a bartender asked how Craig's Bond would like his martini in Casino Royale and he replies "Do I look like I give a damn?" This was one of many excellent directions to take with Craig's version, and yet here when asked this same question, he auto-pilot replies "Shaken, not stirred" because the embrace of formula required him to.
As for the song, I liked it just fine at first. The orchestration, the actual music is gorgeous. After seeing it in the film and experiencing the story, I adore the song. It fits perfectly and represents the goings on of Bonds state of mind. It's a sweeping, romantic Bond tune and I kind of dig that. Not everything has to be rockin'. I did love how they gave him, finally, a happy ending.
Solid 7.5/10. It's very enjoyable. I just hope next time we get a much tighter climax and running time, and some of the action early on felt really lame. I'm not saying I need cars to crash and spiral in slow motion every other minute, but it was a scene of pretty cars driving really, really fast... and then it was over. The fight on the train made up for it. Absolutely the best action scene of the film. I wish there was more of that.
P.S. Ben Wishaw as Q really sold me with this one. He seemed much more likable and fun to watch. Can't wait for more of him now. Replies: 46
Msg #46: On 11/15/2015 at 4:45:19 PM, Bryan replied to Msg #45, saying: I absolutely agree with what you said about Q. His role in the film gave me flashbacks to all the times Desmond went out into the field to help Bond, most notably--for me--in License to Kill. Ben really made me give into the idea of Q as a young man. In fact, the entirety of Bond's supporting cast proved their meddle in this go-around. I cannot wait to see this puppy again.
Also, Paul, I think I love you for being the only other person who is blind to the inevitable demise of this place. Replies: 47
Msg #47: On 11/15/2015 at 9:20:20 PM, PaulSF replied to Msg #46, saying: An audience of one is still better than an audience of none if you think I should keep this up. I'd like to, because something feels missing. For better or worse, this is where I shamelessly displayed all my emotions after seeing a film; it's currently limited to a a handful of friends at different intervals. Everyone here had their own way of expression and taste. I can't think of a group that felt so varied. It was a sitcom.
Msg #48: On 11/16/2015 at 1:17:24 PM, Bryan replied, saying: I'm not going to quit this place, so please carry on. I look forward to another film which polarizes us to opposite sides of the aisle so that you and I can continue our sexually-charged animosity for one another.
Msg #49: On 11/23/2015 at 6:31:02 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #20, saying: At least 40% of my enjoyment of Skyfall was due to Deakins. No matter how good the rest of this picture turns out, no way it looks as fantastic.
This was a completely accurate prediction. This movie begged for bright colors and high contrast, but it was just another dull, flat, gray modern movie. They even managed to make Dia de los Muertos visually bland. The whole movie looked like a Call of Duty game.
It's a shame because, aside from that, it's the best Daniel Craig Bond movie. I think I like Casino Royale more for having such a streamlined story that showcased Bond's revamped ruthlessness, but I always thought Vesper Lynd was an off-putting and unbelievable character. In fact, this is the only film of the four that doesn't have some really stupid character arc at the center: the first two were basically about Bond's inexplicable "love" for Vesper, and Skyfall had a psychotic Oedipal complex instead of a villain.
The movie actually reminds me of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade: it's not as fresh, gritty, stylish, or memorable as the first in the series, and it plays it safe to close out the series, but it's still satisfying as light entertainment. That may sound like faint praise, especially since I don't like the Indiana Jones movies, but this is the only one of the four Bond films with Craig that didn't have anything overly stupid or pretentious in it, and everything in it worked. I especially liked how they recreated a lot of the classic action scenes from the Connery and Moore films because they managed to make the connection strong enough so that any hardcore fan would see it immediately but differentiate it enough so that the scenes were fundamentally new (unlike Star Trek Into Darkness).
I didn't buy Bond's relationship with Madeline, at least as far as the dialogue was concerned. I literally frowned when she told him she loved him. She knew him for, like, two days. I understand the sexual chemistry, but the dialogue was lame, as it was throughout the film (I don't think I've seen a mainstream action film in a long time that had so many cliche lines like "I think you've only just begun" and "You're bluffing", "Am I?"). Lea Seydoux is also one of the most insanely gorgeous women in the world and an excellent actress and I love watching her in just about anything. She is going to be this generation's Catherine Deneuve.
Waltz was great as Blofeld and I loved that they went all out and actually gave him the cat and the scar. The Nolan Batman effect of giving everything a realistic gritty interpretation is starting to wear off and Hollywood is realizing again that people love characters that are ridiculous. Look at Jack Sparrow, for Christ's sake. I only wish Blofeld's motives were something other than, uh, I guess he just hates Bond because Blofeld's dad liked him more... or whatever. The actors could usually pull the film together when the action lulled, but the script really feels like it was written by four separate people. I mean, Jesus, they go to five separate countries and they are vehicle chases with cars, planes, helicopters, boats, and trains. I'm surprised they didn't try to cram a submarine in there somewhere with Bond shooting frogmen with a harpoon gun (I guess I'll have to wait for Rodriguez's Jonny Quest movie).
