#384 The graphics on the numerous computer monitors in JP's control room were actually created in a office full of SGI workstations near the set, then piped in to the monitors via long monitor cables. Prev - Next
Msg #1: On 7/20/2013 at 8:04:45 PM, Cameron replied, saying: Words cannot describe how excited I am to finally see World's Finest. More pumped for this than Avengers 2, have always wantd this more than Justice League.
Msg #2: On 7/20/2013 at 8:25:13 PM, raptor2000 replied, saying: I would have preferred Superman get at least one or two more solo movies before teaming up with others, but if they're going to do one this early on I would prefer it just be a team up with Batman as opposed to with all the rest of the Justice league too, so no major complaints here. I do hope that they at least try to convince Christian Bale to come back for this before they start a whole new line of continuity, though.
Msg #3: On 7/20/2013 at 8:34:27 PM, Cameron replied, saying: Nah, I want a new Batman, a little more World's Greatest Detective to him.
Msg #4: On 7/20/2013 at 9:07:48 PM, PaulSF replied, saying:
Msg #5: On 7/20/2013 at 10:01:14 PM, Bryan replied, saying: I too would have preferred at least one more MoS single outing before World's Finest, but you know what? Fuck it.
There's been six total Superman films featuring just himself. WF is past due. I'm fucking STOKED.
Msg #6: On 7/20/2013 at 10:43:15 PM, Siir replied, saying: When there were rumors about a Batman Beyond film being back on the table after the conclusion of Nolan's Batman, I would have said just ignore Batman Forever and Batman & Robin, get Keaton back as an older Batman and go from that continuity in which he's training a new replacement and then have that replacement fill in as the Batman in any future Superman/Batman team up or Justice League film with Keaton's Wayne as the brains behind the organization.
Now I don't know. And after seeing Man of Steel, I don't know how well Burton's universe would jive with that of Snyder's. I just wasn't so keen on seeing the story of Bruce Wayne told all over again due to Nolan and Bale losing interest in continuing their universe. At least the concept of Batman Beyond would give an all new character, though I don't know how well that would go over to replace Wayne's Batman in the Justice League with his pupil.
Msg #7: On 7/20/2013 at 11:32:51 PM, Varan101 replied, saying: I really don't care if Batman is linked to any previous Batman movie. By now, everyone knows who Batman is, so I'm glad they're not going to yet ANOTHER reboot even if they change him again. And most likely, Batman will be nothing like the Nolan Batman to be able to fit into the larger DC universe.
Msg #8: On 7/20/2013 at 11:52:05 PM, Mr. Chaos replied, saying: If we can't get Bale then I say go completely new. Make this Batman a true 'urban legend' that the criminal underworld whispers about and have him and Superman clash thanks to the machinations of Lex Luthor. Replies: 9
Msg #9: On 7/20/2013 at 11:56:59 PM, Siir replied to Msg #8, saying: I don't know why Lex would organize Batman vs. Superman. I would think that if an alien shows up on Earth and presents a possible danger that Bruce Wayne and Lex would have common interests in eliminating him or at least having a contingency plan that perhaps Lex takes too far in not merely being used as a contingency as Bruce had planned. Though in the beginning Bruce Wayne and Lex could have a financial partnership and common mistrust of Superman.
I.E. have it be Wayne/Batman + Lex vs. Superman initially, then Batman + Superman vs. Lex.
Msg #10: On 7/21/2013 at 3:09:54 AM, JPController replied, saying: Does anyone else believe that they won't take a note from the animated series or JL or the JLU. Hell I doubt they'll even do Batman Beyond.
However in the GL movie, Amanda Waller was present so options could be there. Although J.K. Simmons would be a great return character for the future of a Justice League movie.
What did happen to the build up to these events? Are we just going to fast forward because people want to skip the story and just want to see the action (like AvPR? eh)
Msg #11: On 7/21/2013 at 1:32:58 PM, Evilgrinch replied, saying: I wonder how much they offered Bale? Downey money rejected. I guess he's got some integrity.
Msg #12: On 7/21/2013 at 10:22:56 PM, Trainwreck replied, saying: I'm so sick of superhero movies at this point that I honestly don't give a fuck anymore. Each superhero is reinvented with reboots and recastings at such an unsustainable rate that investing oneself in a given franchise is now meaningless.
Also, I never felt Batman belonged in the same universe as Superman. Especially not as he was reconceived in 2005.
But whatever. The public will continue to see these EPIC world-saving superhero movies no matter what, because they're stupid. Replies: 14
Msg #13: On 7/21/2013 at 10:40:38 PM, Neo The 1 replied, saying: i want the clone saga. then superhero movies can stop.
but until then...
CLONE SAGA, BITCHES!
Msg #14: On 7/21/2013 at 11:13:38 PM, Mr. Chaos replied to Msg #12, saying: Of course, it has to be they are stupid. Can't be because they enjoy them and find them entertaining... it has to be their intelligence.
Seriously, if you want to say you hate something, say that. Don't insult others for like it, though... that just makes you look like a giant dick. Replies: 15
Msg #15: On 7/22/2013 at 7:28:05 AM, Bryan replied to Msg #14, saying: I understand where Chris is coming from. I think, in another few years, I'm going to be sick of any superhero that isn't a DC property. Another couple of years and if it ain't Batman I ain't seeing it.
Until then I guess I'm just a fucking idiot.
Msg #16: On 7/22/2013 at 8:25:37 AM, Trainwreck replied, saying: Well, I am a dick and everybody but me is stupid, so...
Msg #17: On 7/22/2013 at 11:53:11 AM, MAD-REX replied, saying: I'm very excited about this film! I like the directors style, and I think he has the ability to bring a new Batman to the silver screen. I really hope they stay true to the characters. It would be pitch perfect if they went with a storyline similar to whats in the Animated series, but as long as Batman is there, Im sold!
Oooookay
Msg #19: On 8/22/2013 at 10:42:35 PM, Cameron replied, saying: Better than Ryan Gosling
Msg #20: On 8/22/2013 at 11:43:03 PM, Bryan replied, saying: It's an uninspired choice. I was hoping they would go with a relative no-name, like they did with Bale and Cavill, so I'm disappointed we got a big-name star. On the other hand, ten years ago I would have booed the casting outright; these days, Affleck has proven himself enough of a great actor for me to be interested in what he's going to offer in the role.
Msg #21: On 8/22/2013 at 11:47:18 PM, Ostromite replied, saying: Hahahahahahaha
Msg #22: On 8/23/2013 at 12:12:30 AM, Mr. Chaos replied, saying: How dare they! How dare they cast this actor to play Batman! He looks nothing like Bruce Wayne! He doesn't have the right strength a force to play Batman! He is a joke, nothing more, and this movie will suck and bomb! I mean seriously, Michael Keaton? What is...
Wait...
Oh. Oooooh.
Let me try this again, ok?
How dare they take one of DC's most iconic characters and cast some pretty boy teen heart throb to play him! Seriously, what the hell? You think this guy can fit into the world that is being created? He doesn't have the skill or the talent! I mean, Heath Ledger as the Joker is...
Er...
Uh...
What I meant was that they are stupid to cast this washed up actor who threw his career away with poor choices! He is a trainwreck and will ruin this film! Robert Downey Jr. as...
...shit.
Seriously, stay with me, i got it now.
He already played a superhero in a shitty film! And you want to give him another one? Are you stupid, Hollywood? Chris Evans...
...ok, I give up.
EDIT: No, wait, I got it!
How dare they recast this actor when they have the perfect person to play the role? Why didn't the studio just give the man what he wanted so we could get the teamup we've been waiting for? Seriously, Mark Ruffalo as Hulk is...
...DAMN IT! Replies: 23
Msg #23: On 8/23/2013 at 12:35:10 AM, Ostromite replied to Msg #22, saying: Good points, but Michael Keaton sucked as Batman, Chris Evans is boring, and half the actors that have played DC heroes on screen have been a total bust. Replies: 24
Msg #24: On 8/23/2013 at 12:39:39 AM, Mr. Chaos replied to Msg #23, saying: This is more my comment of the knee-jerk reaction of fanboys. They whine and bitch... until they see the movie (or just a trailer), then act like the actor is the best thing in the world and pretend that they weren't out there complaining.
I have no idea if Affleck can pull it off, but after how many times I've been WRONG about actors, I am not going to judge until I see a trailer. Replies: 25, 26
Msg #25: On 8/23/2013 at 12:43:38 AM, PaulSF replied to Msg #24, saying: Pretty much. Boo hoo, a talented actor is playing Batman in the Superman/Batman film. Fantastic choice.
Msg #26: On 8/23/2013 at 12:45:07 AM, Ostromite replied to Msg #24, saying: I actually like Ben Affleck, but, like Bryan said, it's such an uninspired choice, like when Spike Lee cast Denzel Washington as Malcolm X. Replies: 27
Msg #27: On 8/23/2013 at 12:59:23 AM, Phily replied to Msg #26, saying: How is that uninspired? Washington, being a devout Christian, playing a devout Muslim? Going outside of his comfort zone and tackling a role that many would fail at or wouldn't even try to portray? That's pretty much inspiring casting to me, Lee.
Msg #29: On 8/23/2013 at 1:43:58 AM, Ostromite replied to Msg #27, saying: Religion has nothing to do with it. I'll ignore the obvious facts that Washington doesn't look anything like Malcolm X but is and was one of the most bankable black stars in Hollywood. Malcolm X had a ferocity and inner turmoil that Washington simply can't pull off. He dutifully reads excerpts from The Autobiography as the film's narration, but it's unconvincing when he talks about how felt like he could snap and kill somebody without hesitation or how much he hates his white grandfather's blood in him. It's forced; Lawrence Fishburne would have been a far, far, far better choice, but someone like Carl Lumbly would have also been able to do it. Those actors have an intensity that Washington simply can't have on screen, no matter how much he enunciates and glowers. He's like Gary Cooper.
It's worth noting that Spike Lee didn't cast Washington himself; Washington was cast by the producers when Normal Jewison, the limp leftist shill who made In the Heat of the Night thirty years earlier, and when Spike Lee wrangled the directing job away from Jewison, Washington's contract came with it. Lee made better use of Washington in his other films, and Washington as Malcolm X remains probably the worst casting of a lead role in his entire body of work.
Msg #30: On 8/23/2013 at 2:23:14 AM, Trainwreck replied, saying: I don't see what the fuss is about. An A-List actor cast for a role that will no doubt be rebooted in five years.
Msg #31: On 8/23/2013 at 2:44:44 AM, Cameron replied, saying: Keaton remains my favorite live action Batman, and he wasn't some fierce strong dark person, so I'm all over this shit. I thought Bale was good, but nothing better, and I honestly think I'll like Affleck's portrayal more than Bale's
Msg #32: On 8/23/2013 at 7:12:07 AM, Varan101 replied, saying: I think its a surprising choice because Henry Cavill is a nobody in comparison. So Batman is probably going to massively outshine Superman in this movie just from the standpoint of the actor chosen generating the most buzz. And there's also the danger of this being a Batman centric movie instead of a true team up movie due to the "star power." The Batman/Superman team ups have always been fun because of the dynamic between the two.
Msg #33: On 8/23/2013 at 7:56:00 AM, Bryan replied, saying: I'm not concerned about that, to be honest. In fact, I don't find myself concerned in the least. Was casting Affleck a little underwhelming? Yes. WB has shown some serious cojones in the last couple of years by casting relative unknowns in iconic roles, and I was expecting more of the same.
The more I think about it, however, the more I'm assured that Affleck, although maybe not the perfect choice, is also not a mistake.
Msg #34: On 8/23/2013 at 9:07:56 AM, Mr. Chaos replied, saying: Ok, ok... I stayed up all night but I finally found some arguments that will work. Ahem...
Look at him! He's too thin! He doesn't have the bulk to play the role! They should have found someone bigger, stronger! Michael Keaton... damn it, I mean Chris Hemsworth... no, no!
Get it together, Chaos, get it together.
Ok... ok...
All this is... is stunt cast. They picked a big name that will look pretty on the poster but can't fight. Scarlett Johansson... NO! NO NO NO!Damn it!
EDIT: Seriously though... I am getting the sense from the casting and other rumors (especially about Lex Luthor) that they are REALLY going to play up, for the first time in film, the dual nature of Bruce Wayne. Affleck will be able to play a good playboy billionaire, and then he will slip on the cowl and the sculpted-muscle shirt and he will play a dark, vengeance crime fighter. Can he pull off the Batman part? I think he can because, honestly, I think THAT part is easy. Anyone can slip on the cowl and if DIRECTED CORRECTLY pull of that role (see Keaton) Replies: 35
Msg #35: On 8/23/2013 at 11:47:38 AM, Evilgrinch replied to Msg #34, saying: Ultimately, I think it's a poor choice (commercially speaking) to ditch the Nolan continuity. Tens of millions, profit points, whatever it took to get Bale on board should've been offered to get the face behind a proven $1+billion franchise into this crossover. Even with a star as capable as Affleck, this picture won't come close to the BO for the last two Nolan pics. They need that big draw to stand out in a rammed summer season, and a Bale vs Cavill face-off would've provided that.
Creatively, I'm drawn between pleasure that they're carving out a new universe and annoyance that they're a) sacrificing proper Man of Steel followups to jump on the Marvel bandwagon and b) rebooting the Bat within just three years (2012-15) of his previous outing. In a perfect world, these fools would've engaged in the sort of long-termist thinking that's served Marvel so well, rather than bombing into Justice League before the full DC canon has a chance to be properly developed. Warner Bros are late to the party, pulling off the inevitable with none of the smarts or irreverance of their big competitor.
That said, I wish them luck!
-EG
Msg #36: On 8/23/2013 at 12:42:07 PM, Bryan replied, saying: I think it was a mistake not to use the current TDK continuity as well. But Chris Nolan was adamant about his films existing in a world without superpowers and superheroes, and he would have been very much against the concept of using his Batman in this new universe.
That being said, as excited as I am to see--at last--the World's Finest in live action cinema format, it is curious that they're choosing a second MoS film as the vehicle, rather than waiting a film or two more. But, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, there've been 6 Superman-only films already. And 7 Batman-only pics. It's time. Replies: 37
Msg #37: On 8/23/2013 at 2:46:56 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #36, saying: Mixing the Nolan films into a Superman story would be a disaster. I have major problems with the films, but that would ruin them. I don't see how anybody can seriously think that Bale's Batman could work alongside Superman. I understand fandom for Nolan's films is strong and people want to see it continued and acknowledged as "canon," but if you just picture a complete scene of it playing out on screen it should be self-evident why it isn't happening. Replies: 38
Msg #38: On 8/23/2013 at 4:30:09 PM, Evilgrinch replied to Msg #37, saying: From a strictly business standpoint though, the Bale/Nolan Bat taking on Supes would've been a surefire Avengers sized hit. I'm pleased Nolan's films can rest, but I can't get away from the thought that WB are missing an opportunity here... Replies: 39
Msg #39: On 8/23/2013 at 5:37:05 PM, Bryan replied to Msg #38, saying: In a manner of speaking, then, the creators of this crazy thing may not be entirely motivated by financial reasons but rather those of a more artistic nature, and that gives me hope. Replies: 40
Msg #40: On 8/23/2013 at 8:47:54 PM, raptor2000 replied to Msg #39, saying: I don't think you hire a big name like Ben Affleck to be "artistic", unless of course he was also hired to direct.
Like Grinch, I feel the dismissal of the Nolanverse is a big missed financial opportunity, but I can also understand the point that the two universes would not gel together very well. Then again, I didn't think that Thor would ever be able to fit in with the other Marvel characters, at least after having only seen the first two Iron Man movies and The Incredible Hulk, so whatever
I again question the wisdom behind doing a team up movie after only one movie in this new Superman cano, and with no origin story for this new Batman, but let's face it, all our butts will be there in those seats on day one anyway.
Bottom line, I think Affleck is an amazing actor and an even more amazing director, but I'm not sure he is entirely right for this role. Nevertheless, I will see it and hope for the best. I just hope that WB understands, though, that one teamup movie between two single characters does not make the, ready for a Justice League movie. Batman and Superman will both need at least one more individual setup movie, along with whatever other major superheroes there will be.
Msg #41: On 8/23/2013 at 11:33:16 PM, Siir replied, saying: I don't think they need to do Batman's backstory again. Especially coming off the relatively recent Nolan films, I think they can kind of assume that the audience knows the gist of Bruce's story, even if this is a new continuity. If they feel they must, they could just do something like they did with Tim Burton's Batman, where the movie begins with Bruce Wayne as Batman, then you subsequently find out about the murder of his parents later in the film. I don't feel like they need to get any deeper than his motive for becoming a superhero. For instance, I don't think they need to show how/where Bruce was trained to fight as Batman Begins did. The Avengers didn't re-tread Bruce Banner's story, despite it being unclear (to me anyway) if that Hulk was supposed to be the same as Edward Norton's or just an all new iteration of the character.
Batman/Superman can't just give way to the Justice League. They still have to introduce Wonder Woman (who I assume is a given, since she's part of the DC "trinity"); Flash; Green Lantern (if they are going to reboot him); and any other members they decide to go with -- Cyborg, Hawkman/girl, Martian Manhunter, Aquaman.
They could do this by given each character their own standalone movie as Marvel did. Though for instance I would be skeptical of the quality of a Hawkman or Martian Manhunter film, if either of those characters were intended to feature in a future Justice League Film, and they might be better off being introduced in the films of other characters, such as in post-credits scenes. Replies: 43, 49
Msg #42: On 8/23/2013 at 11:43:52 PM, Mr. Chaos replied, saying: I will say this though... I still would have prefered them hire Michael Keaton, made the first two batman movies canon to this, and him play a 50 year old Bruce Wayne.
But that was never going to happen so I like this
Msg #43: On 8/24/2013 at 6:51:01 AM, raptor2000 replied to Msg #41, saying: The Incredible Hulk is in the same canon as The Avengers. They refer to events from the earlier move in Avengers, and show footage from his attack on the college when Stark is reading files on the other members.
Msg #44: On 8/24/2013 at 12:40:23 PM, Bryan replied, saying: I very much doubt that they'll retread the origin story. They will most likely make reference to it and perhaps draw thematic parallels between the tragedies in Clark's and Bruce's past, but otherwise I don't think they'll waste valuable screen time on common knowledge.
Msg #45: On 8/24/2013 at 8:08:03 PM, Siir replied, saying: They also said that they were aiming for an older, experienced Batman. So they wouldn't be able to actually show his origin, except through flashbacks, which I would expect to be brief.
Msg #46: On 8/24/2013 at 8:37:09 PM, PaulSF replied, saying:
Msg #47: On 8/24/2013 at 9:02:34 PM, Siir replied, saying: I honestly am not familiar with any of Affleck's "good" work. I know him from Kevin Smith movies, Armageddon, and Daredevil - the theatrical version, not the director's cut (which I just overheard someone saying today is actually pretty good).
I never saw Argo, which I know he received a lot of praise for.
I can't criticize Affleck, both because I haven't seen him outside of a cheesy movie and some comedies, and because I would have been critical of Ledger too based on what films of his I had seen prior to The Dark Knight, and look how that turned out.
I do think he is an odd choice insofar as I was expecting someone older, both because they had read a passage from The Dark Knight Returns (in which Batman is old) for the Batman/Superman movie announcement, and because Snyder had said that Batman in this film would be older and someone that had been crime fighting for some time.
Affleck to me doesn't look much older than Bale. I don't know what the actual age difference is between the actors, but just on appearance, Affleck doesn't immediately make me think "hey, this Batman is older."
Replies: 48
Msg #48: On 8/24/2013 at 9:27:42 PM, Mr. Chaos replied to Msg #47, saying: I think people are misunderstanding what Snyder meant when he said they'd have an older Batman. They didn't mean his age... they meant compared to Clark Kent. Clark is suppose to be what, in his late 20s? MAYBE early thirties? And he is also only been a hero for, in this movie, a year?
This Batman will be a batman who has been fighting crime for years. He will be, from what I have gathered and am guessing, an urban legend. This will go back to how some have portrayed him in the past: no one knows he exists, he is an urban legend that criminals tell themselves.
He is not going to be a 50 year old man that is nearing the end of his career. He is older than Supes, more experienced... and that will be his edge. Superman is new and raw and still getting use to all this. Batman is older and wiser.
I think also people are getting so stuck on 'The dark knight returns' that they think this is going to be a direct adaptation. It won't be. It couldn't be. They are merely using the idea of Batman and Superman fighting each other and picking out the one book that is most famous for seeing that happen. Seriously, I think they only picked that quote because it is such a GOOD one.
On a slightly different topic, I just wanted to post this because I found it rather interesting. This is Patton Oswald's response to all the fans posting links to the petition to get Ben Affleck fired from the film on Oswald's facebook page:
" No matter how many times you post your stupid “Fire Ben Affleck from Playing Batman” petition, I’m going to delete it and block you. Take a deep breath, and think for a second:
Yeah, the dude’s made some bad films. Every actor has. Every actor does. Every actor will. It’s a huge, arcing career and NO ONE has control over where it goes. Movie to movie, year to year, you’re collaborating and trying and risking and, sometimes, yes — failing.
Plus, everyone seems to forget that he had the world dropped in his lap when he was YOUNG. And, judging by how other suddenly-famous youngsters do in the same situation, he fared pretty well. Even when it went wrong, he seemed to keep a self-deprecating, long-view philosophy about the burning freak carousel he’d found himself on.
And then what happened? I mean, he’d fallen from a HEIGHT. You know what happens to 95% of people who weather a descent that steep? They come apart, fray at all of their sanity nodes, and give up.
But then there’s the 5% who embrace crushing defeat and see it for the gift it is. And here’s the gift: when you fail, and fail UTTERLY, you wake up the next morning and see that the world didn’t end. And then the fear of failure is gone. And you’re free. You’re free to proceed on your own terms and pace — if you have the ego that permits you to.
Ben brushed himself off, realized he’d kept his eyes open on the movies he’d done, and started directing. And he’s become a damn good one.
A Batman portrayed by someone who’s tasted humiliation and a reversal of all personal valences — kind of like Grant Morrison’s “Zen warrior” version of Batman, post-ARKHAM ASYLUM, who was, in the words of Superman, “…the most dangerous man on the planet”? Think for a second and admit that Ben Affleck is closer to THAT top-shelf iteration of The Dark Knight than pretty much anyone in Hollywood right now.
I’d write more, but I have to go work on my post about how an overweight 44 year-old comedian with bad feet and insomnia would be a bold choice for The Joker."
Msg #49: On 8/25/2013 at 3:03:12 AM, AngelsPhoenix replied to Msg #41, saying: There should've BEEN a Wonder Woman movie. I've read somewhere that The CW was trying to do a Wonder Woman series, but shelved it. I think they've shelved it, not quite sure.
I did read there will be a Flash series. I think he'll make an appearance or two on Arrow, and go from there. Again, not sure.
Don't really care for Affleck as Batman, but they could've went with someone worse: James Franco.
Replies: 50
Msg #50: On 8/25/2013 at 4:39:30 AM, Cameron replied to Msg #49, saying: Barry Allen will be appearing in episodes 8 and 9 of the upcoming season 2 of Arrow, and a third appearance, in the 20th episode of the season, will be serving as a backdoor pilot for the Flash series.
The Wonder Woman series they were working on, titled Amazon, was for the time being delayed. The original plans were for it to debut next fall, and that likely will not be happened, with it premiering Fall 2015 at the earliest. They pretty much weren't happy with how things were turning out on it, and didn't want to try rushing into it, and have decided, for the time being to put all focus on Arrow and Flash.
And I'm ok with there being no Wonder Woman film. I honestly don't think it would do too well. I think it's smarter to have her in Justice League, and do her well, so people will be talking about how awesome she was. Then you can go into a solo movie afterwards where people have already seen the character and may be more interested to see her in a film. Also, Wonder Woman being new to the world, perhaps right after she starts her superhero career in Justice League, would actually be pretty interested, if they really need her help to overcome the threat, and she's the newcomer, so they aren't sure what she's like, and she doesn't know much, if anything about the other heroes, so she works as the audience surrogate character, in ways similar to how Captain America was portrayed in Avengers.
Also, I'd like to see whoever CW casts as The Flash also appear in Justice League, just because that would be pretty cool to have the movie and TV universe connected like that, and unlike Shield will, the TV universe DC did would actually be focusing on lesser heroes, not just the government agency.
But I think that general audiences know about Wonder Woman enough from the cartoon series and general exposure to know what she brings to the table and not be confused in the film. Then if a solo film happens after that, you cna explore her past and backstory a bit more. Replies: 51
Msg #51: On 8/25/2013 at 7:45:23 AM, Bryan replied to Msg #50, saying: I don't know. See, I like the idea of Arrow's Flash being part of the continuity, since Arrow has thus far been a very grounded retelling, with a tone that isn't far away from Snyder's. If they do decide to use that world as part of MoS' continuity then you have the backstories for Flash and maybe even Oliver Queen already taken care of.
Wonder Woman, though? She deserves her own flick. Her interpretations through the years have been as widely varied as Batman's. I don't think it's likely we'll be getting a J'onzz or Hawkman or Aquaman film, and if they're part of the league, then you're establishing way too many characters in it, and it wastes screen time (or, worse, glosses over characterization and goes straight for action and spectacle). I think it would be smart for Wonder Woman to have her own film. It might be a good idea to reboot GL while they're at it, or use a Lantern whose not Hal Jordan. The fewer people that need to be established in a League film, the better.
Msg #52: On 8/25/2013 at 10:01:02 AM, raptor2000 replied, saying: DC and WB would. Be wise to include and make use of as many existing properties as they can so they have to introduce as few characters as possible, but I think we all know deep down that's not gonna happen. Aside from Superman (and, by that point, Batman) it'll most likely be an entirely new cast in Justice League.
I did see a rumor the other day, though, that of the two top names in the running to play Lex Luthor in MoS 2, Bryan Cranston and Mark Strong, WB was leaning towards Cranston so Strong could return as Sinestro, so that could mean they will include the Green Lantern as canon as well Replies: 53
Msg #53: On 8/25/2013 at 11:07:38 AM, Mr. Chaos replied to Msg #52, saying: I could see them ONLY bringing back Strong. That's the great thing about green Lantern... you can easily recast the role. They could find a really good, talented black actor (Idris Elba please) to play John Stewart and easily reboot the franchise using only the pieces they want (and while I loved Green Lantern I am the first to admit that general consensus is that Strong was one of the few great things in it)
Msg #54: On 8/25/2013 at 6:52:45 PM, Siir replied, saying: I don't see the need to reboot Green Lantern. It wasn't a great movie, but every time there's a dud superhero movie, they don't need to keep rebooting. I didn't have the problem so much with the acting in Green Lantern so much as awkward decisions in direction - like Jordan's CG mask - and poor writing.
I'd be fine with Reynolds showing up as GL again. And if they ever make a future GL movie, they writing, acting, etc. can all be fixed without the need of rebooting. Having said that, I'd also be fine with Stewart.
They don't have to have all seven members of the Justice League in the first JL film. The roster at any given time is different.
In the cartoon it is: Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, John Stewart, Wally West, Martian Manhunter, and Hawkgirl.
In the current New 52 comics, the initial lineup was: Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, Hal Jordan, Barry Allen, Cyborg, and Aquaman.
They have some wiggle room to play around with characters. They could throw Green Arrow into the Justice League if they were desperate to round out the cast with characters that have been established. If they pull the same Flash from the TV series to be in the film, they could do the same with Green Arrow and have a lineup like:
Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Arrow, Hal Jordan
Wonder Woman would be the only one that would really need to be established prior to the film. Or they could even establish her in JL itself if she is made a central character to the plot, like if Ares were to be the villain or something.
And then in a sequel they could expand the roster to include J'onzz, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Cyborg, and/or Aquaman.
I think it was one of the guys at IGN that also threw out the idea that rather than having a "Justice League" film, they could just go from Batman/Superman and gradually expand the roster with each sequel (though, that seems like it would become extremely gimmicky).
I think their proposal would be that we began with Man of Steel, then it will expand to Batman/Superman, then they could make a Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman film after that, and so on. Replies: 56
Msg #55: On 8/25/2013 at 8:35:49 PM, Cameron replied, saying: I believe Reynolds said that he didn't have any real interest in returning as Hal Jordan. I say just bring in John Stewart. That's who was in the cartoons and the casual audience will know better anyways. I'd like to see Lance Reddick play the part myself.
I'd keep it simple for the first Justice League. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash & Green Lantern. Green Lantern won't need an introduction, even if it's Stewart, if you use the Flash from the tv series, that's taken care of, and Superman/Batman are established, which leaves only Wonder Woman, and you can weave some of the unknowns about her into the story of Justice League, with the rest of the team learning about her.
Msg #56: On 8/25/2013 at 9:16:16 PM, Mr. Chaos replied to Msg #54, saying: I shouldn't have said reboot. I should have said restart... take what was set up in Green Lantern (Sinestro, the guardians, the look and feel of the corps and the ring) but bring in John Stewart.
My idea, if I were writing it, would have it open with Hal Jordan being killed and his ring finding Stewart. Sinestro arrives and says that Hal was his student and Stewart says they are going to track down the bastard that killed Hal. There are some adventures in space and we get a bit of 'Training Day' in space with Sinestro and Stewart (Sinestro is the veteran that doesn't play by the roles and gets rough... kinda like in the animated movie). Maybe throw in someone like Larfleeze or Atrocitus as the alien they are chasing.
The big reveal though would be when they landed on Korugar and Stewart begins to see how Sinestro runs things... and finally turns on him, telling Sinestro that his way is wrong. There is a fight, at which point Sinestro proclaims, "You are just like him, you know? Jordan didn't understand it either. I wonder if you'll whimper like he did when I crushed his throat." He then puts on the yellow ring and begins to battle Stewart. John wins and Sinestro is exiled to the Qward... where the Weaponers declare that they can give him an army.
As for Justice League, I want them to 100% bring in Arrow and Flash. Beat Marvel at that game and make the tv shows also canon. Make the line-up Superman, Batman, Flash, Green Arrow, and Green Lantern. Introduce Wonder Woman and J'onn J'onzz by having the villains be the White Martians and J'onn having been captured by the Amazons (they believe him to be a demon from Hades) and Diana joins the fight to 'guard' the 'prisoner'.
Msg #57: On 8/25/2013 at 9:23:09 PM, Cameron replied, saying: I'm coll iwth just keeping Arrow to the tv universe himself, just don't really see him fitting in with the others in live action. Especially since they'll have to make sure to work Batman properly to make him stand with the supers, tryign to do that with two characters would be much harder
Msg #58: On 8/26/2013 at 2:42:37 PM, Phily replied, saying: Has anyone heard anything about Bryan Cranston playing Lex Luthor? If this turns out to be true, it'll probably one of the best casting choices in comic-book film history! Replies: 59, 60
Msg #59: On 8/26/2013 at 3:35:35 PM, raptor2000 replied to Msg #58, saying: Msg #52: On 8/25/2013 at 10:01:02 AM, raptor2000 replied, saying:
I did see a rumor the other day, though, that of the two top names in the running to play Lex Luthor in MoS 2, Bryan Cranston and Mark Strong, WB was leaning towards Cranston so Strong could return as Sinestro, so that could mean they will include the Green Lantern as canon as well
Msg #60: On 8/26/2013 at 3:50:20 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #58, saying: I hope it's not Cranston. He's obviously amazing as the manipulative evil genius with no hair on Breaking Bad, but, come on, let's think outside the box, people. I mean, sure, he'd be good as Lex Luthor, but there are a lot of other brilliant actors waiting for a meaty villain like that who'd be perfectly willing to shave their heads.
Msg #61: On 8/26/2013 at 4:30:18 PM, Grizzle replied, saying: I just want to know why they chose Ben Affleck when they could have picked Shia LaBeouf. It just doesn't make any sense.
Msg #62: On 8/26/2013 at 7:16:41 PM, Siir replied, saying: I think Cranston would be good, but most modern versions of Luthor tend to depict him as being roughly Clark's age, with some going so far as have Luthor be a peer of Clark's growing up in Smallville. I wouldn't want them to go that route, but while I like Cranston, I hope they maintain a narrower age gap. Where Lex is trying to build a name for himself and Superman is distracting attention away from a young genius. Not where Lex has been established for a decade or two already.
Msg #63: On 8/26/2013 at 11:22:48 PM, Mr. Chaos replied, saying: While he would do great, I still say I want Benedict Cumberbatch. My view of a modern Luthor is that he should be Steve Jobs: someone who loves attention, who has a VERY loyal fan base, and who tries very hard to craft a reputation he controls. I think Benedict would be perfect to play such a character.
Msg #64: On 8/26/2013 at 11:37:48 PM, Cameron replied, saying: Cranston would be good, but I don't think Luthor suits him the best. I do, however, think that Cranston would be a perfect Hugo Strange if they ever brought that character into the Batman films Replies: 65
Msg #65: On 8/26/2013 at 11:55:27 PM, Grizzle replied to Msg #64, saying: What about Commissioner Gordon?
Msg #66: On 8/27/2013 at 2:33:11 AM, Grizzle replied, saying: Don't know if this is legit or not but:
Sorry, links not embedded; it's a bit difficult to do on my phone.
Msg #67: On 8/27/2013 at 5:59:56 AM, PaulSF replied, saying: A Man Of Steel sequel with Affleck as Batman and now Cranston as Luthor? Not sure how this movie could get anymore awesome, but I'm sure it will.
Msg #68: On 8/27/2013 at 11:57:26 AM, Pteranadon2003 replied, saying: That report comes from "a source" on CosmicBookNews which is notoriously unreliable. I can't believe this rumor has gotten this out of hand. There's nothing confirmed about it and I can't believe Rolling Stone would run it. Replies: 69
Msg #69: On 8/27/2013 at 1:22:55 PM, Mr. Chaos replied to Msg #68, saying: It has really gotten bad. There is no way to trace the story after Cosmicbooknews and every reporter seems to add a bit more to the story. If you are to believe the recent tales, Matt Damon is going to be Aquaman, Cranston is signed for 6 pictures, Affleck for 10, Affleck is going to direct Justice League, and all of this will be annonced the day after the Breaking Bad finale.
The ONLY thing that proves it ISN'T 100% false is the fact that no one has come out to deny it. Replies: 70
Msg #70: On 8/27/2013 at 5:52:25 PM, Grizzle replied to Msg #69, saying: Matt Damon as Aquaman is laughable and I'm surprised there are fanboys out there who actually believe it, let alone even want it.
Besides, if Aquaman appears in the Justice League movie (please god) Simon Baker is the obvious choice. Replies: 71
Msg #71: On 8/27/2013 at 11:59:24 PM, Mr. Chaos replied to Msg #70, saying: Yeah, now that is how I picture Aquaman.
Msg #72: On 9/4/2013 at 7:37:32 PM, Siir replied, saying: Well, apparently Cranston is implying that he has not signed on to be Luthor yet and that a lot of the rumors about him seem to stem solely from the fact that he played a bald character.
He's not my first choice, but he would have been/would be a safe choice. Again, I'm hoping for someone younger, closer to Cavill's age, who feels robbed of attention now that Superman is on the scene.
Msg #73: On 9/4/2013 at 10:40:12 PM, Bryan replied, saying: My wife put up Michael Rosenbaum's name for nomination. To date, his performance as Lex on Smallville has been hands down the most powerful and faithful ever to grace the screen.
But I shot it down anyway. Rosenbaum is Smallville's Lex. I can't see him walking and talking in Man of Steel's reality. Whoever they do decide on, however, (and I'm hoping its neither Cranston nor Strong), that individual would do well to study Rosenbaum's performance. Replies: 74
Msg #74: On 9/5/2013 at 12:15:04 AM, Mr. Chaos replied to Msg #73, saying: I feel the same way. Rosenbaum is Smallville's Lex. I still say Benedict Cumberbatch would be a great Luthor but hell, with rumors he is going to be in Episode 7, might as well forget about that.
Msg #75: On 12/4/2013 at 4:16:27 PM, Mr. Chaos replied, saying: And we have our Wonder Woman. Gal Gadot has been cast in the role.
Let's see how long we can go without a sexist comment, shall we? Yahoo didn't last 3 minutes. Replies: 76, 79
Msg #76: On 12/4/2013 at 4:34:40 PM, Evilgrinch replied to Msg #75, saying: Gadot actually has a lot of presence, but the character deserves better than playing third fiddle in a MOS sequel. WB need to give her a full feature and stop scrambling to ape the Marvel model. Replies: 77
Msg #77: On 12/4/2013 at 5:44:02 PM, Mr. Chaos replied to Msg #76, saying: Of course, we have no idea what the plan is for her. She could easily just be a minor role that leads into a main movie.
Msg #78: On 12/4/2013 at 6:52:03 PM, Cameron replied, saying: Bring it on. Just the fact that WB is finally doing WW in liv action is god news to me. I'm hoping they do a good job with her in a supporting role, and it leads into a solo feature.
Msg #79: On 12/4/2013 at 7:06:14 PM, Varan101 replied to Msg #75, saying: I think its funny how people expect to find someone who actually resembles a comic book character. Even the bulkiest male actors pale in comparison to the super exaggerated comic book characters.
Msg #80: On 12/5/2013 at 7:06:03 AM, Bryan replied, saying: I'm unfamiliar with Gal's work but based on photos I think she'll fit the bill quite nicely.
Msg #81: On 12/5/2013 at 7:31:31 AM, Maester replied, saying: Affleck will do fine, my only concern is that they chose him to play an older Batman, but he still looks quite young. We shall see. He's grown since Daredevil and that embarrassing stint with Jennifer Lopez.
I don't plan on seeing it anyway as Superman bores me. What's the use of a villain if the hero is completely and utterly untouchable? Kryptonite be damned. Also, the idea Batman could even compete with him, a man who isn't even super, is equally unfathomable.
Msg #82: On 12/5/2013 at 9:23:30 AM, Siir replied, saying: I've never heard of this woman before, so I can't really form an opinion, other than I'm pleased that they went with someone that could actually pass off as Greek as opposed to the pasty white skinned, blue eyed daughter of a blonde haired Greek goddess as WW is usually portrayed.
And Superman is seldom "untouchable." My understanding is that during the late 40s and early 50s, comics were heavily censored leading to the corny tales that tend to stereotype Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman (at least before the films), even still today. Stories in which the hero pretty much just shows up and saves the day easily and is accompanied by some kind of moral, uplifting message or sentiment.
In no modern comics that I am aware of does Superman just show up and save the day and be completely invulnerable. It's usually accompanied by him getting his ass kicked. Granted, he never really dies (and he doesn't actually die in "Death of Superman"), but the same can be said for the vast majority of heroes.
Msg #83: On 12/7/2013 at 10:03:31 AM, Ostromite replied, saying: I'm pleased that they went with someone that could actually pass off as Greek as opposed to the pasty white skinned, blue eyed daughter of a blonde haired Greek goddess as WW is usually portrayed.
Exactly. I agree with Grinch that Wonder Woman deserves more than a supporting role in a Superman sequel, but at least she's getting something of a big screen revamp rather than just Linda Carter 2.0. All these dickheads in comments sections around the internet are complaining that she's "too skinny," but what they really mean is that they want a Frank Frazetta babe with huge knockers.
I haven't seen Gadot in anything, but she's goddamn gorgeous and it'll be funny to see Ben Affleck in a major role in the film where he's the ugliest one. Replies: 85
Msg #84: On 12/7/2013 at 10:29:58 AM, Varan101 replied, saying: Large boobs enhance her crime fighting abilities!
Msg #85: On 12/7/2013 at 11:50:32 AM, Trainwreck replied to Msg #83, saying: I just Googled her and she does look too skinny. I don't think criticism of the casting choice has as much to do with bewbs as it does with achieving the look of a woman who is athletic/muscular as well as, yes, voluptuous. The skinny look isn't attractive, but even worse, it's tough to take a skinny girl seriously as a superhero.
It would be like casting Michael Cera as Clark Kent or something. Replies: 86
Msg #86: On 12/7/2013 at 3:37:10 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #85, saying: I don't know if Gadot will work out or not, but I don't think she's too thin to take seriously as Wonder Woman. I mean, the only reason Superman needs to have a big chest and muscles is that that's how he's always drawn. He has super strength regardless, and so does Wonder Woman. Once she gets in the suit, it won't matter how thin she is if she can command some screen presence. I mean, Scarlett Johansson was okay as what's-her-face in The Avengers, and there are all sorts of skinny women superheroes in the Buffyverse. Replies: 87
Msg #87: On 12/7/2013 at 4:22:48 PM, Bryan replied to Msg #86, saying: Also, it's kinda sexist to assume Gadot won't have some workout regimen to add a few pounds just because she's a woman. No one was really too concerned that Christian Bale would be too skinny for the role of Batman considering his previous film: everyone just assumed, correctly, that he would bulk up for Begins. Replies: 88
Msg #88: On 12/7/2013 at 6:46:22 PM, Trainwreck replied to Msg #87, saying: But Bale was seen in previous films as not being skinny, so people knew that he had at least a normal frame capable of building muscle. It's not sexist to look at Gadot's build and assume she can't build the muscle, as she really does look too thin to support any serious amount of it. Again, it would be like casting some hilariously weak and thin male actor as a superhero; it just doesn't work.
And Ostro, the source of the superhero's power doesn't really matter. Every superhero has some sort of aesthetic that is an important part of their identity, and Wonder Woman's has never, as far as I can tell, been that of a frail, featureless woman. Seriously, she looks so wimpy.
Maybe she'll put on 20 lbs of muscle before filming, like Bryan says, but I don't blame people for being skeptical. Replies: 89
Msg #89: On 12/7/2013 at 7:23:35 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #88, saying: Frail and featureless? Haha what? Whatever, I get what you're saying. She is quite thin, and Wonder Woman isn't normally drawn that way, but it's not like, as you said, casting Michael Cera as superman. I don't really know who they could cast that would look like Wonder Woman, as far as the body is concerned. I mean, look at Lynda Carter here:
I'd say she's just as "frail and featureless" as Gadot. Nobody who can act worth a damn has comic book Wonder Woman's bodacious tits and Olympian thighs. Replies: 91
Msg #90: On 12/7/2013 at 7:24:45 PM, Bryan replied, saying: Okay, Bale may have had a decent frame prior to Begins. But what about Ed Norton or Will Smith, who put on some serious weight for roles? Anyway, it's a moot point. Scarlett Johansson had a workout regimen to put on some muscle weight for Black Widow and Charlize had a serious diet change for Monster.
Msg #91: On 12/8/2013 at 9:37:03 AM, Trainwreck replied to Msg #89, saying: There's no way she's as featureless, and I'd say she looks like she might be a bit stronger than Gadot. Still not the WWE babe-looking chick they could ideally cast (if any of them were capable of acting), but past casting choices shouldn't necessarily guide future ones (did anyone want to see another Bat-West?).
Bryan, I think it's just a matter of people not realizing how much actors and actresses can get into their roles. I was skeptical of Ledger as Joker some six years ago, but holy shit was I wrong. So it may be with Gadot. My only real point is that skepticism of Gadot is understandable, if not wholly legitimate, and doesn't, in and of itself, indicate bias against half of the human population. Replies: 93
Msg #92: On 12/8/2013 at 10:01:11 AM, Maester replied, saying: On that note, and sadly she can't act, but I would have chosen Trish Stratus for the role if she her talents fit. Ideally, Wonder Woman should be played by an unknown actress.
Msg #93: On 12/8/2013 at 11:33:07 AM, Pteranadon2003 replied to Msg #91, saying: Carter has more meat to her than Gadot. I feel like I could break Gadot in half. She needs to pack on some muscle if she wants us to take her seriously as WW. I'm concerned she might not do that because she's also a model. Don't forget she's a MODEL that got a few acting gigs in the Fast & Furious movies. I like her fine in those movies however I'm not convinced she has the talent to carry her own franchise (which is what this casting is all about...it's a multi-film deal no question).
Msg #94: On 12/8/2013 at 11:36:11 AM, Ostromite replied, saying: I think you guys need to look at Lynda Carter again. She's skinny as heck, easily as skinny as Gadot. They puffed up her hair and put those obviously fake boob-pushers in the Wonder Woman bodice to make her look bigger and more intimidating. And - get this - she was a beauty pageant queen and model before she got any acting gigs, just like Gadot. Replies: 95, 97
Msg #95: On 12/8/2013 at 11:11:34 PM, Trainwreck replied to Msg #94, saying: Carter has a bit more weight to her. She's thinner than Wonder Woman should be, yes, but Gadot looks positively fragile. Ideally, WW would have well-developed muscle for a woman, but Gadot looks like she lives on 1,200 calories a day and avoids all protein.
Msg #96: On 12/9/2013 at 2:11:45 AM, Cameron replied, saying: I'm sure Gadot will put some muscle on. Her role in this film will likely also be small, so it will be easier to work around it for no,w this is going to likely be similar to Black Widow in Iron Man 2, introduce her, have one or two highlight moments with her, and that's it, with Justice League expanding her role.
Ideally, I'd like to see Gadot get to about the same point Jennifer Garner was in Electra. Thatm ovie wasn't good or anything, but Garner's muscle mass and figure looked good in the film. That's where I'd liketo see Gadot get to
Msg #97: On 12/9/2013 at 9:08:57 AM, Mr. Chaos replied to Msg #94, saying: I am with Ostro 100%. Carter is far, far from 'strong'. Depending on the age, she was either too frail or a bit too... soft... when she played Wonder Woman. But everyone just accepted her as Wonder Woman because she was the first one.
Its kinda like Reeves. Everyone has this image in their head that he was super strong and fit... but look at the pictures of him and its mostly that he had broad shoulders and was tall. he wasn't ripped like Cavill was.
Honestly, look at Bruce Wayne in the comics.... the man is built like an NFL linebacker. You could never find someone with the acting chops and that body to play the role, so you go with thinner but good skills. Same here; I don't WANT some WWE wrestler or MMA fighter... I want someone who is a good actress AND who actually looks like they could be from Greece.
My personal theory is that Wonder Woman in this film won't be doing much 'super' stuff. I think she's going to be Bruce's 'girlfriend', only for it to be revealed she has been acting as a spy, using him and his resources to learn about Man's World. Replies: 100
Msg #98: On 12/11/2013 at 5:24:22 AM, JPController replied, saying: Big question
When everyone saw I am Legend did anyone notice this? Replies: 99
Msg #99: On 12/11/2013 at 9:40:01 AM, Bryan replied to Msg #98, saying: Seriously old news, bro.
Msg #100: On 12/11/2013 at 11:42:19 AM, Velociraptor87 replied to Msg #97, saying: I don't see Wonder Woman being particularly interested in learning about 'Man's World', at least not initially. Themyscira is an Amazonian society entirely composed of women that all -hate- the world of men. They've forbidden contact with it.
I'd prefer they go the Justice League DCAU route, introduce a threat that not just one hero can contain. Give Diana a reason to leave Themyscira.
Msg #101: On 12/12/2013 at 12:22:24 AM, Siir replied, saying: I haven't been following news of this film super closely, but I hope they don't just drop Wonder Woman in, she needs time dedicated to properly introducing the character.
So I'm wondering if the character is just going to have the smallest of cameos before getting her own film?
Initially this films seemed to be billed as "the Man of Steel sequel." E.G. "Batman will appear in MoS2!"
Batman is familiar enough at this point that he really needs no intro regarding who he is. We got Superman's intro in Man of Steel.
They could have made this predominantly a Wonder Woman film, where one of her villains is the main villain (like Ares) with Superman and Batman getting pulled in to help her. But I doubt they can introduce the concept of Batman and Superman on screen at the same time and NOT make them the centerpiece, especially with rumors that two of Superman's villains are going to be the antagonists.
I'm just left wondering where that leaves Wonder Woman and how big her role will be. Like, is she only going to crop up in a post credits scene on Themyscira as a tease for the next film?
Msg #102: On 1/17/2014 at 8:42:36 PM, JPwonderboy replied, saying: BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN/Untitled MAN OF STEEL sequel delayed until May 2016.
Idk, something about Batfleck injuring his leg, creative differences, blah blah fucking blah...
Msg #103: On 1/17/2014 at 11:58:33 PM, Mr. Chaos replied, saying: I am actually for this 100%. More time spent on the movie, the better... it already felt rushed and this will let them have the time to do it right. Also, it makes sense from a merchandise standpoint; now DC will be by themselves, able to do a ton a tie ins without fighting Avengers.
Also, there is a rumor going around that they want to film Justice league back to back with this... maybe they are delaying this film so that they can do that. That would also make the sheer among of casting rumors (Josh Holloway as Aquaman, The Rock as John Stewart) make sense: they aren't casting for BvS, they are casting justice League.
Msg #104: On 1/31/2014 at 1:38:16 PM, Bryan replied, saying: Jesse Eisenberg cast as Luthor and Jeremy Irons cast as Alfred. Simultaneously awesome and concerning news. I don't think this is a situation of Heath Ledger as the Joker, considering that Synder is no Nolan. It's brave and it's bold casting but I just don't see how Jesse Eisenberg will make an intimidating Luthor. On the other hand, Jeremy Irons as Alfred seems like a good fit. Now if only we could get Jonah Hill as Robin...
Msg #105: On 1/31/2014 at 2:16:47 PM, Cameron replied, saying: I was cool with Affleck, but Eisenberg? Fucking joke
Msg #106: On 1/31/2014 at 4:08:35 PM, Mr. Chaos replied, saying: My thoughts on Jesse Eisenberg being cast of Lex Luthor: A strange choice that I would have never guessed, but also makes a lot of sense if they are going the way I think they are going. Hear me out... Luthor always represents what we as a public fear when it comes to power. When he first appeared he was a scientist creating Doomsday weapons... in an era where people feared being nuked and science seemed ready to destroy us, that made sense. Then the 1970ss through the 2000s Luthor is a business man... against, in a post-Gordon Gecko word, this makes sense that our fear would be 'The Man' in his ivory tower. Mid 2000s to around this time period has seen Lex become affliated with the Government... again, makes complete sense with what is going on.
So the new Luthor is a young man, played by an actor who portrayed Mark Zuckerberg... considering the fears about NSA spying and our reliance on Facebook, as well as a feeling that the young, hip innovator is becoming the new powerhouse, this suddenly makes sense. i had said that if I were doing it, I'd cast someone who could portray an evil Steve Jobs... but an evil Mark Zuckerberg fits just as well. can't you see a Luthor who runs social websites and uses the information he gathers to gather up blackmail and information? A Luthor who doesn't mind handing over his users data... as long as the government gives him something in return?
My hope is that they are setting up Luthor to be the wunderkind who has made it big and lives for attention... and doesn't like it that Superman has arrived and is getting more google search hits then him. A Luthor who will claim that he made something others did then use his money to beat them down with lawyers.
Basically, an Evil Zuckerberg.
It is a strange, interesting choice that could, potential, pay out HUGE. It could also backfire. But again, I will wait and see. Replies: 107
Msg #107: On 1/31/2014 at 4:21:04 PM, Evilgrinch replied to Msg #106, saying: He'll probably be amazing (like every other leftfield casting decision ever) and in two years we'll all be sitting here surprised people were so down on the idea. I dunno if the film will be up to much, but I dig the cast.
Msg #108: On 1/31/2014 at 5:11:56 PM, PaulSF replied, saying: LOL I love that Eisenberg is playing Lex Luthor. Nothing brings me more happiness than fanboy tears. Eisenberg is super talented. This won't be typical old bald dude Lex Luthor. He's probably a good fit for their vision.
Msg #109: On 1/31/2014 at 5:15:27 PM, Ostromite replied, saying: My only issue with it is that I think he would look kind of stupid with a shaved head because he's got kind of a lanky, skinny face.
Msg #110: On 1/31/2014 at 5:23:07 PM, PaulSF replied, saying: Replies: 112
Msg #111: On 1/31/2014 at 5:58:12 PM, Cameron replied, saying: If they go with that Luthor I might straight up skip it. I hate Eisenberg to begin with, but jesus i just cannot get behind this. If he knocks it out of the park, ill tip my hat, but to me, Luthor needs to be the most charismatic yet not overdoing it guy in the room, not Eisenberg, no commanding presence at all. When I think of Luthor, I think Clancy Brown's voicework, and I want a live action equivalent to that.
I'm losing interest in this movie fast, and World's Finest is one of my favorite things ever
Msg #112: On 1/31/2014 at 6:30:47 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #110, saying: Oh, good, another Superman movie where Lex Luthor isn't bald. Just what I was hoping for.
Msg #113: On 1/31/2014 at 6:40:32 PM, Mr. Chaos replied, saying: Probably the funniest thing I've heard is someone stating that Eisenberg is 'just a baby' and they should have gotten someone Carvil's age.
They're both 30 years old.
And Ostro, I'm confused... the only non-bald Lex i can think of is from Lois and Clark. Replies: 114
Msg #114: On 1/31/2014 at 6:44:52 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #113, saying: Gene Hackman's Luthor wore a toupee through the whole movie. I know he was technically bald in the film, but Hackman didn't want to shave his head and the character has hair in all but one scene. It was stupid and one of the worst things about the original Superman movies. Replies: 121
Msg #115: On 1/31/2014 at 7:28:38 PM, Bryan replied, saying: I think Snyder and co. are trying too hard to re-invent the wheel in an attempt to stay fresh and exciting, and keep up with Marvel's updates to their mythos. But this is not broken or even that outdated. The only great live-action Lex has been Smallville's incarnation, and that's because they played him straight. He wasn't really reinterpreted in terms of characterization. And he worked. This...this smacks of desperation.
Msg #116: On 1/31/2014 at 7:36:15 PM, raptor2000 replied, saying: I really couldn't care less if Lex has hair. Nobody complained about the Joker in The Dark Knight having long, stringy, greasy hair instead of the neat and clean cut that the Joker usually has. I get that that is his trademark, but as long as the character is well done, I just don't care.
That said, I just can't get behind this casting. Eisenberg is a good enough actor, but he is kind of a one trick pony and always just plays himself. His persona is, in my opinion, just not right for Lex Luthor. And, hair aside, he does not have the physical appearance and build that Lex Luthor should have. It is just going to be lame seeing a scrawny, wiseass kid (he may be the Same age as Cavill but it looks like he has not even hit puberty yet) take down or at least be a match for not one but two of the greatest superheroes of all time.
Bryan Cranston, the name that was being thrown around the most, would've been a much better fit. Hell, even Jeremy Irons, the actor who was announced to be playing Alfred, would have been a better fit than Eisenberg. With this casting and the addition of Wonder Woman to the film, I, too, am rapidly losing faith in this project.
Msg #117: On 1/31/2014 at 9:01:36 PM, Bryan replied, saying: Bryan Cranston is such an obvious choice that it was always felt like fan-jerk, and that's rarely good. I mean, I'm sure he would have done well but it's so...meh. I was really on board for the rumor that Joaquin Phoenix was in the running. That would have been an incredible performance, I think. To be fair, maybe Eisenberg has it in him to turn in a great Lex. After all, who knew Michael Rosenbaum could knock the role out of the park? That said, I'm of the opinion that Eisenberg is one-note, and he's been playing it for a good decade. Replies: 118
Msg #118: On 1/31/2014 at 9:56:58 PM, raptor2000 replied to Msg #117, saying: I was 100% on board with Phoenix, too.
Msg #119: On 1/31/2014 at 11:40:29 PM, Cameron replied, saying: I never really wanted Cranston either, just because it would have felt like he was trying to keep rolling on the Breaking Bad train. I personally feel Cranston would be a fantastic Commissioner Gordon, or even a great Hugo Strange more so than a Lex anyways Replies: 122
Msg #120: On 2/1/2014 at 1:04:46 AM, Jackle replied, saying: Oh for fucks sake people. Heath Ledger as Joker, all that really needs to be said...
Msg #121: On 2/1/2014 at 8:58:26 AM, Mr. Chaos replied to Msg #114, saying: Ah, yeah... I've mentally blocked that stupidity from my head.
Msg #122: On 2/1/2014 at 8:59:53 AM, Mr. Chaos replied to Msg #119, saying: I am so on board for Cranston as Gordon
Msg #123: On 2/1/2014 at 11:18:49 AM, Varan101 replied, saying: I don't even care. I'm bored with Lex Luthor and perhaps this casting choice will bring something new to the character. I'd be against just about anyone cast as Lex Luthor, because I am against Luthor being in this movie at all.
Msg #124: On 5/13/2014 at 12:40:56 PM, PaulSF replied, saying: Click.
Msg #125: On 5/13/2014 at 12:52:57 PM, Vinsfeld replied, saying: A brightened shot of Paul's picture
Look at the Bat logo... WTF did batman transfrom to FatBatman? Replies: 134, 136, 141
Msg #134: On 5/14/2014 at 1:41:13 PM, Neo The 1 replied to Msg #133, saying: Ugh, that's one of the worst batman suits ever created. This new one is miles better. What, you don't like the bigger ones? GAY. Replies: 135
Msg #135: On 5/14/2014 at 2:18:22 PM, Cameron replied to Msg #134, saying: Yeah, im not too high on the bigger bat symbol, but not a deal breaker, because i like the rest of the suit a lot
Msg #136: On 5/14/2014 at 4:45:03 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #133, saying: The new suit looks way better. The one in the Dark Knight movies looks fucking awful. Not only does it ruin Batman's iconic silhouette, but it's covered with all that tacticool bullshit that makes him look like a Warhammer mini that someone didn't finish painting. I didn't see Man of Steel because it looked bad and I think Snyder is a terrible director, but I'm glad they're going with a more classic comic book look to shake off some of the grimdark dust the Nolan films have left on the character.
Msg #137: On 5/17/2014 at 2:51:22 PM, JPwonderboy replied, saying: For me personally, this suit will take some getting used to. I understand the Frank Miller influence, and the suit itself is rather bad-ass for something so different (from a live-action standpoint, obviously). But the cowl...those ears...something is screwing with me about those ears. I understand the practicality regarding short ears over long ones (walking into a doorway, not having to duck), but something about the way this comes across strikes me as a touch cartoonish. Maybe it's the slightly rounded ears. Like I said, the influence was obviously Miller, but there's something off-kilter for me about the cowl. Other than that, the suit is pretty damn decent. They seem to be keeping in line with that whole "alien" look that they brought to Superman's suit, and that's good. All we need now is to see it in action...and in proper color. Replies: 138
Msg #138: On 5/17/2014 at 4:55:13 PM, raptor2000 replied to Msg #137, saying: Superman is an alien. Batman is not. Replies: 139
Msg #139: On 5/17/2014 at 5:15:43 PM, JPwonderboy replied to Msg #138, saying: Oh I'm fully aware of that, lol. I was just pointing out that the texture of the new Batman suit (and even a small bit of the design) fits in line with the texture with which they designed Supes' suit.
Msg #140: On 5/18/2014 at 3:27:13 AM, Velociraptor87 replied, saying: Adam West. :(
Msg #141: On 5/18/2014 at 1:47:02 PM, Mr. Chaos replied to Msg #133, saying: That logo is inspired by the Frank Miller logo, as is much of the suit.
Msg #142: On 5/21/2014 at 2:00:34 PM, IngenRaptor replied, saying: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
The defendent claims it was an accident resulting in a battle to save humanity from evil aliens.
Who is right? You be the judge, on another episode of People's Court.
Msg #145: On 5/21/2014 at 6:17:58 PM, Bryan replied, saying: Ugh. This is the first decision on this film to leave me completely 100% cold. Where's the class? What was wrong with World's Finest? No, instead they set up the marketing for the next movie in the trilogy, which is Justice League, without a thought to the fact that it all smacks of desperation.
Msg #146: On 5/21/2014 at 6:25:12 PM, Ostromite replied, saying: I don't like subtitles that could be switched around and it would work just as well: Dawn of Justice: Batman versus Superman.
Msg #147: On 5/22/2014 at 1:21:49 AM, JPController replied, saying: And the suit isn't bad but according to Kevin Smith its the West style. I mean come on with as strong a character that has been built from Nolans work this could be a perfect flush. But Then again, there's always iterations of a story that have to be done. Although Retcons are known to happen.
At 7:39 I call this the connection to "Man of Steel", the investments of Wayne Enterprises investing into space tech. Which could be a build up to the scene from MoS:
Which could of blatantly called out a Nolan mixup.
Msg #148: On 6/14/2014 at 9:50:47 PM, AngelsPhoenix replied, saying: Take with a tub of salt until confirmed: Hitfix is saying Jason Momoa is Aquaman. WB hasn't said anything. For future reference, how trustworthy is Hitfix?
www.hitfix.com/motion-captured/jason-momoa-will-play-aquaman-in-dawn-of-justice-and-we-know-how-it-whappen/ Tried posting as clickable link, and it didn't work. Replies: 149
Msg #149: On 6/14/2014 at 10:39:14 PM, JPwonderboy replied to Msg #148, saying: Drew McWeeny, the dude that wrote the article, is 100% legit. He's one of my favorite internet film journalists, and has a good reputation in the industry (he's also not a cynical, smug asshole like Matt Goldberg from Collider). I'm biased, but I'd trust him.
Msg #150: On 7/26/2014 at 2:50:05 PM, AngelsPhoenix replied, saying: There is a pic out of Gal Gadot in Wonder Woman gear, but I have trouble posting it.
Yeah, I know the rest of the internet probably already made this joke, but I haven't seen it yet so fuck you.
Msg #157: On 7/27/2014 at 12:58:16 PM, JPwonderboy replied, saying: Personally, other than the Xena similarities, I really don't have any ill will toward this new Wonder Woman design. The muted color scheme is very much what I would expect from Snyder and the world he's attempting to create. It seems wholly logical, given the cheesier elements of the original costume wouldn't exactly mesh well with Snyder's world, that this would be the smartest way to go in terms of the design. And Gal Gadot looks great in it. The real question is whether she's the right Gal for the job (lol).
Msg #158: On 7/27/2014 at 1:57:32 PM, AngelsPhoenix replied to Msg #151, saying: I hope she doesn't have to do any running in those "hooker heels". Seems like she could fall in those things. They could've either been flat, or have an inch or two heel. Replies: 159
Msg #159: On 7/27/2014 at 10:11:47 PM, Trainwreck replied to Msg #158, saying: Yeah but she looks pretty hot with 'em on, so I think I speak for most of the board when I say it was the correct design choice.
Msg #160: On 7/27/2014 at 11:03:31 PM, Phily replied to Msg #151, saying: That outfit is the best WW outfit I've ever seen.
Msg #161: On 7/27/2014 at 11:17:08 PM, Grizzle replied to Msg #155, saying: Superhuman demi-gods are above petty activities such as weightlifting.
Msg #162: On 2/20/2015 at 7:37:22 AM, AngelsPhoenix replied, saying: Aaaand Zack Snyder has tweeted first pic of Momoa as Aquaman. https://twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/568650209581858817/photo/1
That being said, I think this trailer kicks ass. The shot of Affleck staring at the Batsuit, looking like he's about to blow a gasket from all the rage and anger...BEST shot in the whole trailer, IMO. And I'm glad that they didn't try to hide Affleck or keep him in the shadows; we got a good look at the Batsuit, as well as a decent idea of his voice. The tension between Supes & Bats is certainly palatable here.
I can't wait.
Msg #172: On 4/18/2015 at 3:28:37 AM, Velociraptor87 replied, saying: I like the Superman backlash. The way the trailer presents it though, it seems Batman is there as part of the backlash - was he called in by Lex? Or just trying to neutralize Supes before he's a threat?
I kinda like it. And that really surprises me.
Msg #173: On 4/18/2015 at 4:45:07 AM, PaulSF replied, saying: No complaints from me. Love that Snyder got his DP back from Watchmen (Larry Fong). Looks much more visually appealing than MoS did, and I love the tone of this film so far regarding the response of Clark's presence. His actions are about as controversial in the universe of the film as they were with the audience for it previously, and I think they're tackling that.
Msg #174: On 4/18/2015 at 5:31:30 AM, Ostromite replied, saying: The movie is called Batman v. Superman and the trailer makes it seem like the whole movie is Batman confronting Superman about his place in society, but we all know that Wonder Woman and Lex Luthor and fucking Aquaman are all in this, too. I think it's going to be a clusterfuck. Replies: 175, 176
Msg #175: On 4/18/2015 at 6:12:38 AM, Velociraptor87 replied to Msg #174, saying: Considering Jason Momoa was one of the last castmembers announced, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if he shows up literally a moment before the credits to set up his own movie. (Edit: Or, Atlantis agrees with the rest of Earth, and views Superman as a threat. Maybe that's the case with Wonder Woman/Themyscira as well.)
That said, yes, this has the potential to be all over the fuckin place. Hoping it isn't.
Msg #176: On 4/18/2015 at 10:28:31 AM, Bryan replied to Msg #174, saying: I'm with Lee. Snyder doesn't seem to be learning from MoS's mistakes. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of fun here, and with a roster of characters this large, it will likely not make any sense. Of course, I also said that about Days of Future Past so what do I know? On the plus side, I honestly don't really care that much. I'm finally getting Bats and Supes on the big screen together so fuck it all. Replies: 177
Msg #177: On 4/18/2015 at 7:37:46 PM, Velociraptor87 replied to Msg #176, saying: "I'm finally getting Bats and Supes on the big screen together"
Yea, my sentiments exactly. It's taken for-fucking-ever for this to happen, and the idea of the rest of the Justice League being on the big screen is also pretty cool.
I wonder if, when they finally start doing the Justice League films, they'll adapt stories from the comics/DCAU or do their own.
Msg #178: On 4/28/2015 at 5:48:59 PM, Ostromite replied, saying:
All they did was up the saturation. Didn't even balance out the color at all. Replies: 180, 181
Msg #180: On 4/28/2015 at 6:49:43 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #179, saying: Well what the fuck, it's not like they have the negative or can do anything with the finished product other than put on YouTube like this. Were they supposed to spend two months or whatever fucking around with the RGB/CYM levels just to make their concept clips better looking?
Msg #181: On 4/29/2015 at 12:56:37 AM, PaulSF replied to Msg #179, saying: The main reasons it fails for me is because it misses the fact that the color palette was very specific to the tone of that story. The last thing MoS or the upcoming BvS need to be are colorful and pleasant to look at because people enjoy pretty blue skies.
Larry Fong says everything he needs to with his response (DP on Super 8, Watchmen, and Batman V Superman):
But really, I don't think all the criticism boils down to just "make it saturated!!" Man of Steel's color scheme is very trendy. It had been in film & video games for quite some time. I mean, in terms of look alone, it might as well be MAN OF STEEL GEARS OF WAR. Desaturated, earthy gray & brown tones CAN set a mood. But it can also become a bad trope to overcompensate for a script that doesn't convey a mood as well as it should.
Man of Steel is a fun movie with no glaring flaws imo. But defending its color scheme seems silly, especially when the plot is already dire enough. Replies: 183
Msg #183: On 4/30/2015 at 9:43:17 PM, PaulSF replied to Msg #182, saying: especially when the plot is already dire enough
Which is why it visually shouldn't be feel like the Donnerverse. I'm not saying I love the way it looks, but I can see the decisions behind it. It's no one's place to color over someone else's work and go SEE? ALL BETTER. Replies: 184
Msg #184: On 4/30/2015 at 10:13:38 PM, Velociraptor87 replied to Msg #183, saying: I agree with that, that shit is disrespectful. And I understand it's utilization in regards to plot - I just don't see it as necessary.
