"INCEPTION" On 5/8/2010 at 4:29:56 AM, Pteranadon2003 started the thread:
My most anticipated movie of the summer is coming JULY 16th in North American theaters. The teaser had me drooling at what the film could be about and just how damn cool it looked. The third trailer(called the theatrical trailer-below) explains the basic premise and I could not be more excited.
Synopsis from TrailerAddict.com (Spoilers for those who don't want to know anything about what the film is about): Acclaimed filmmaker Christopher Nolan directs an international cast in an original sci-fi actioner that travels around the globe and into the intimate and infinite world of dreams.
HIGHLIGHT TO CONTINUE SYNOPSISDom Cobb (Leonardo DiCaprio) is a skilled thief, the absolute best in the dangerous art of extraction, stealing valuable secrets from deep within the subconscious during the dream state, when the mind is at its most vulnerable. Cobb's rare ability has made him a coveted player in this treacherous new world of corporate espionage, but it has also made him an international fugitive and cost him everything he has ever loved. Now Cobb is being offered a chance at redemption. One last job could give him his life back but only if he can accomplish the impossible—inception. Instead of the perfect heist, Cobb and his team of specialists have to pull off the reverse: their task is not to steal an idea but to plant one. If they succeed, it could be the perfect crime. But no amount of careful planning or expertise can prepare the team for the dangerous enemy that seems to predict their every move. An enemy that only Cobb could have seen coming.
THIS SUMMER...YOUR MIND IS THE SCENE OF THE CRIME
Msg #1: On 5/8/2010 at 5:03:48 AM, Adam replied, saying: Wow, looks amazing. And this is an entirely original screenplay from Nolan, correct? Not based on anything except Nolan's own imagination... it warms me to know that original ideas still exist!
Msg #2: On 5/8/2010 at 5:17:44 AM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: Been waiting for this since the teaser before Basterds last year. Best birthday gift ever (which is July 14). Nolan is easily my favourite director of the past decade, quite possibly of all time if he keeps churning out great stuff (Kubrick is first)
And Nolan and his brother conceived and wrote Memento together. But yeah, this is his first original work since.
Msg #3: On 5/8/2010 at 5:22:44 AM, JPJunkee replied, saying: Looks fantastic. THE movie of the summer for me, possible the entire year. Nolan is fast becoming one of my all-time favorite directors, and I love that cast. Looking forward to this one with high expectations.
Msg #4: On 5/8/2010 at 5:39:39 AM, Colin replied, saying: I am seriously so damn excited for this film. That newest trailer put my excitement into overdrive and now I can't even contain myself. I haven't been looking this forward to a movie since, well, The Dark Knight.
Msg #5: On 5/8/2010 at 6:08:38 AM, Narrator replied, saying: Am I the only one that feels very "eh" about this movie? Replies: 6, 12, 18
Msg #6: On 5/8/2010 at 6:30:04 AM, Pteranadon2003 replied to Msg #5, saying:
Msg #7: On 5/8/2010 at 10:05:37 AM, Trainwreck replied, saying: Looks badass...the only thing that upsets me is that I'm afraid the trailer may have shown us way too much of the movie. But this is Nolan, so I know there's gotta be much more going on.
Msg #8: On 5/8/2010 at 4:22:27 PM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: Ahaha, I don't think it's possible to show what's going on in a Nolan movie in only 2 minutes.
And yes Narrator, you are.
Msg #9: On 5/8/2010 at 4:59:22 PM, Phily replied, saying: Inception will be the best movie this year. The odds are fairly strong for that bet.
Msg #10: On 5/8/2010 at 6:08:54 PM, Velociraptor87 replied, saying: That's a very... ensemble cast, imho. Almost feels like 'Old Hollywood'. The trailer was great and Christopher Nolan is brilliant, so I expect an amazing movie this July. :)
Msg #11: On 5/8/2010 at 10:42:43 PM, Dac replied, saying: Well, TW, we thought the trailer to The Dark Knight showed us a lot and the end result was most people I knew still got blindsided by a lot of it.
D: And she's down to earth. So she's seemingly attainable yet she's a Hollywood actress so it's liek NGGGGGHHH
Msg #25: On 5/11/2010 at 1:29:12 AM, The_Shniz replied, saying: It was a pretty surreal moment considering I had watched the Inception trailer several times before coming into work and then two hours later I was talking to one of the lead actors. Of course Halifax isn't very big, and she's apparently in the theatre all the time so running into her isn't that impressive a feat.
It was during the afternoon too so the theatre was empty. Just her and I alone in the lobby until her dad showed up... haha
And while I couldn't accurately gauge her personality with such a brief encounter, she did seem pretty cool.
Msg #26: On 5/11/2010 at 10:04:31 PM, Monkipzzle replied, saying: Ellen Page is extremely hot... To give into my sourthern roots for just a moment: "I'd like to slap her on a plate and sop her up with a biscuit!"
Maybe I should just get in touch with her agent. Agent: "Do you have a part in a movie for Ms. Page?" Me: "Oh, no, I just need her phone number so I can ask her out."
Msg #46: On 5/12/2010 at 8:34:51 PM, Seth Rex replied to Msg #42, saying: if that's the case then I was meant to be with Jessica Alba and a few other actresses (sadly which includes Paris Hilton.) Replies: 47
Msg #47: On 5/13/2010 at 12:03:01 AM, Snake Mark replied to Msg #46, saying: I'm sure you accidentally used Paris Hilton and Actress in the same sentence, right Seth?
What was this thread about again? Replies: 50
Msg #48: On 5/13/2010 at 3:01:18 AM, Monkipzzle replied, saying: Originally, I'm not sure...but it has evolved into a vigorous debate over the intense hotness of Ellen Page...
Sorry.
Msg #59: On 5/14/2010 at 3:43:23 AM, Narrator replied, saying: Bieber or die
Msg #60: On 5/14/2010 at 10:44:59 AM, Apocalypse replied, saying: She's 16? Sign me up! That shit is legal here in Canada lol. While your at it, bring me Miley Cyrus. Replies: 62
Msg #61: On 5/14/2010 at 5:07:33 PM, PaulSF replied, saying: Back on topic for a moment I just seriously can't get over that trailer. This is the first awesome trailer I've seen since over a year ago. Even beyond the footage for the film itself, it is an extremely well put together work. It might as well be the official guideline on how to make a trailer for a film.
- explains the title, what the story is about coherently and effortlessly. - incredible pacing - the best use of music in a trailer since the Star Trek one early last year. amazingly memorable - showcases awesome looking action and performances whilst both getting you excited about the story and not showing too much - Tom Hardy's "You mustn't be afraid to dream a bit bigger, darling." Awesome. Sums up this film compared to the rest of the summer.
Msg #62: On 5/14/2010 at 6:05:10 PM, raptor2000 replied to Msg #60, saying: And now back off topic.
But not hot. Replies: 72, 73
Msg #72: On 5/21/2010 at 9:27:48 PM, Guilty Spark replied to Msg #71, saying: She's got the girl next door type of look.
Msg #73: On 5/21/2010 at 9:34:36 PM, raptor2000 replied to Msg #71, saying: What difference does it make? Honestly, I prefer girls who are cute or pretty or, as Guilty Spark said, having that girl next door type of look. I prefer natural and nonconventional beauty. You all can keep your super models. Replies: 74
Msg #74: On 5/21/2010 at 9:56:21 PM, Trainwreck replied to Msg #73, saying: But the thing is, this girl isn't even that pretty. She's just a completely average girl. Not exceptional in any way, shape or form. Yet all of you guys claim she is hot.
Inception is a masterpiece. Making a huge film with big ambitions, Christopher Nolan never missteps and manages to create a movie that, at times, feels like a miracle. And sometimes it doesn't even feel like a movie; while presented in woefully retro 2D, Inception creates a complete sense of immersion in another world. The screen before you is just another layer of the dream. I don't even know what's the most remarkable aspect of Inception. It's huge-budget filmmaking harnessed to tell a personal story that's smart and uncompromising. That's certainly remarkable in this age of Hollywood. It's a production that brought its cameras to six countries, never allowing a backlot to do when a shot could be achieved in a real location. That's starting to feel unheard of in this day and age. It's a movie where Christopher Nolan manages to bring together all of his obsessions and quirks, where his personal issues are the life and death issues at the center of the story, and where he has managed to turn every single one of his directorial weaknesses into massive strengths. That, perhaps, is the truest miracle - the auteur finally completed before our eyes. Every single movie Christopher Nolan has made until now has led to Inception. The fractal, recursive nature of Following and Memento informs the structure of reality in Inception. The exploration of narrative and storytelling in The Prestige leads to this film. And the obsession with control, a throughline that leads from Insomnia to Batman Begins and fully blooms in The Dark Knight, takes Nolan directly to the drama at the heart of Inception. The advertising for Inception presents the film as a dream-based heist thriller, which is true enough in a larger sense. But the heart of the movie is psychoanalysis presented as kick ass action. Nolan's interest in dreams doesn't come from the surreal nature of them (in fact very early on Nolan, who wrote the script, presents an in-universe rule that makes the dreams be as realistic as possible) but from what they say about the dreamer. Nolan is looking at dreams as the entryway to the subconscious. They're the gate through which a repressed, emotionally distanced person can access the feelings that trouble them deep inside. And that's the genius of the film. Nolan is a director who has always been chilly; some may kindly call him restrained. While visually he is an unabashed pupil of Ridley Scott, Nolan is a student of the Stanley Kubrick school of emotion, and Inception reminds me of The Shining in that the emotional content isn't subtext or nuanced but rather blaring, plot-motivating text. Leonardo DiCaprio is Cobb, the best extractor in the world. A dream thief, Cobb and his team get into your mind during sleep, when it's most vulnerable, and they find and steal information they need. But Cobb has a problem - he can't keep his own subconscious under control, and his repressed feelings about his wife keep manifesting themselves in the dream space, becoming more and more aggressive and dangerous.
In another film that's the subtext, the subtle motivation behind Cobb's character. In Inception it gradually becomes everything, and it is explicitly dealt with as a part of the plot. By making the pain deep inside Cobb another element of the heist movie structure, Nolan is free to deal with it analytically, with a cold eye for what it means to Cobb as a contained man. Like in The Dark Knight the greatest danger isn't external, it's completely internal - the loss of control. In The Dark Knight that loss of control was represented by the dual figures of The Joker and Two-Face, while in Inception that loss of control - the scariest thing Nolan can imagine, it seems - is represented in the haunting beauty of Marion Cotillard. All of this happens against the backdrop of a gripping thriller. Cobb has been hired by a mysterious businessman, played by Ken Watanabe, to perform the most difficult dream job there is: they are not going to steal something from the mind of industrialist heir Cillian Murphy but rather leave something there. They are going to go deep into his subconscious and plant an idea that will blossom into something that will benefit Watanabe; it turns out that the planting of an idea - inception - is markedly more difficult than the stealing of one. And so Cobb must gather a crackerjack team of dream experts to get deep into the mark's mind - many layers deep into his subconscious - and give him an idea so firmly rooted that when he awakes he'll be convinced it's his own.
Joseph Gordon-Levitt is Arthur, Cobb's usual point man. His job is to do the research into the mark, to get to understand the target intimately so that the team can create a dream that will feel convincing and real. Tom Hardy is Eames the forger, the team member who impersonates people within the dream, making the dreamer think that certain thoughts or ideas come from his own subconscious. Dileep Rao is Yusuf the chemist, the guy whose specially concocted sedatives allow the team the freedom and flexibility to move throughout the mind. And Ellen Page is Ariadne the architect*, perhaps the most important member of the team. She actually builds the dream world, creating a space for the team to work and where the mark will feel comfortable. In the world of Inception the worst thing that can happen during a mission is that the mark begins to realize he's dreaming. The cast that Nolan has assembled is just as crackerjack as Cobb's team. These are among the best young actors; beautiful faces to be sure (and I don't know that anyone has photographed Ellen Page as angelically as Wally Pfister does here), but also among the most serious actors of their generation. Structurally Inception is a heist film, and as in a heist film most of the characters are defined by their functions, as opposed to anything deeper. But with a cast as great as this, Nolan is able to get characterization out of the smallest moments. He knows that he can trust this cast to round these people out, that they will become more than just their job description, and that their interrelationships will take on a life of their own. That's exactly what happens; while the greater pleasures of Inception have to do with epic action scenes and satisfying psychological catharses, the smaller joys come in moments where Arthur and Eames bounce off of each other, or where the troubled, weary Cobb slowly warms when dealing with the fresh-faced, talented Ariadne. Nolan shows a facility for maintaining the team dynamics while also keeping the central story focused on Cobb, as his inability to keep control over his deep-seeded issues begins to endanger his team.
The first half of the film is set up: the explication of the world (done with panache and thrills), the building of the team, the outline of the heist. And then the second half of the film is the heist itself, a journey through multiple layers of the psyche that span the globe and have relativistic chronological connections. This leads to one of the most incredible, jaw-dropping and beautifully-created sustained action set pieces in cinema history. The action ranges across levels, with car chases and shoot outs and fist fights, and with the events in one level of reality impacting the next. Moments in one level are hours in the next, and crashes and explosions in one ripple down to those below. It's heady and smart and most of all completely and totally thrilling. What could be the most thrilling, though, isthe way Inception shows serious promise for Nolan as an action director. His action scenes have always been confused and poorly shot; while a handful of Inception's action scenes - like a chase through the streets of Mombasa - are vintage Nolan mess, most of the heart-stopping action in the third act is next level stuff, which hopefully means Nolan has begun to conquer his fear of long shots in fight scenes.
As amazing as the bravura third act is, the most transcendent part of it is Joseph Gordon-Levitt's zero gravity fight in the dreamy corridors of a hotel. The simplistic comparison is to The Matrix, but I think it's also the best - no action scene in a mainstream movie has been so incredibly realized, so elegantly staged and remained so viscerally exciting since the Bros Wachowski shook up the world of action movies. It's a scene that made the hair on the back of my neck stand up, not because it was using some exciting new technology or because it was incorporating underground techniques but because it was just so well done, because it was so beautiful and so fun and so fresh. The biggest problem with the zero-G fight is that it ends, that Nolan doesn't keep dragging it out so that we can keep living in that perfect cinematic moment. I wanted to get to my feet and applaud.
To be honest I wanted to get to my feet and applaud all through the third act. The stakes keep raising while also becoming more and more personal. The goal isn't a knock out punch or an explosive finale (although both come into play) but rather emotional breakthroughs. And to make those breakthroughs be an organic part of the sound and the fury going on around them is the work of a master, a filmmaker who has truly come to a place where his skills are unsurpassed. In the final moments of Inception you realize this movie has worked on every single level, from Hans Zimmer's edging on monster movie score to Pfister's stunning visuals to the textured and believable CGI effects that give the dreamworlds their depth. A standing ovation is the natural impulse when faced with such perfection.
I can see how some might dislike Inception. Nolan's vision of dreams is one that is fairly staid and antiseptic and frankly not that resonant with how I dream. And if a viewer cannot engage in the beginning, during the film's opening dream heist, it's possible that they'll never be able to engage with the rest of the film. But I can't see how someone could say Inception is bad. Thematically it is Nolan's most complete and whole vision (which is a relief, as I think thematics has been where the director has dropped the ball in the past), but cinematically it's also his grandest vision. It's his complete statement as an auteur, bringing together his personal quirks and his stylistic quirks; Inception is his ultimate city movie, and it's his ultimate repression film. It's the summation of everything he has done to date. And it's delicately assembled, with each piece having meaning and a perfect fit with every other piece. There's not a wasted moment or an unnecessary diversion (again, a relief, as Nolan was all about diversions in The Dark Knight). Everything means something.
What's perhaps best about Inception is that it's not a trick film. A smart, aware viewer will find most of the movie's answers given to them in the very opening scene. Nolan's not trying to hide anything or pull any twists, and he's more interested in paying off emotional beats than pulling the rug out on viewers at the end. Memento works despite being a puzzle movie, but The Prestige is fatally crippled by being a one and done fluff experience. Nolan wisely avoids that here; a lesser director might have tried to twisterooni his film to death, but Nolan knows that we're going to be looking everywhere for clues and meanings, and he's happy to deliver them. This, again, is a psychoanalysis film, and Nolan wants us to interpret it just as a therapist might interpret our dreams. The ending isn't intended to shock or stun but to pull together the pieces, while sending the audience out discussing the larger meanings and contexts of what they've just seen. And it's a film that will reward mightily on future viewings. Inception works on the most basic levels as the ultimate in cinematic entertainment, and it also works on deeper levels of meaning and character. The film I am most reminded of, weirdly, is Lawrence of Arabia. While Inception has nothing to do with David Lean's masterpiece (except for some gorgeous location photography), it contains the same scope I find there. I can watch Lawrence as the gripping examination of the meaning of a man, or I can watch Lawrence as a lush, epic adventure. Both ways of approaching the film are equally correct and both ways are equally satisfying. Inception brings the epic scope of Old Hollywood together with the psychological realism of New Hollywood, creating a fusion that feels timeless and classic. I loved Inception. I loved seeing the world Nolan created. I loved visiting the locales and spending time with the characters. I loved every moment of the waking dream, every frame of the celluloid reality. Cinema is dreaming, and Nolan understands this implicitly and completely. While Inception didn't remind me of many dreams I've had, it reminded me of many incredible, transporting moments spent in movie theaters. I'm glad that Nolan opted not to post-convert his film to 3D, as that process would only distance the audience from the movie. By shooting on 65mm film, Nolan has created a massive, immersive and complete visual experience. I actually can't wait to see this movie again but in IMAX, to be completely enveloped in the universe that Nolan, the year's leading cinematic dream architect, has created.
10 out of 10
* not everything is subtle. Ariadne is a Greek figure connected to labyrinths, and the basic structure of any dream world, we learn, must be a maze.
Msg #91: On 7/5/2010 at 10:00:18 PM, Monkappotamus replied, saying: OK, I purposefully only read the opening paragraph and then the 10/10, then shit my pants. I think we need to clone Christopher Nolan.
Msg #92: On 7/5/2010 at 10:30:14 PM, PaulSF replied, saying: ...Okay I'm only halfway through that review when he starts to mention how fucking amazing the action sequences are and then details why... I'm actually having to stop midway because what he says is making me so excited the blood is rushing to my head and it's about to make me hyperventilate. Oh my FUCK.
Msg #93: On 7/5/2010 at 10:51:43 PM, Adam replied, saying: Jesus Christ.
Msg #94: On 7/5/2010 at 11:27:22 PM, Pteranadon2003 replied, saying: All reviews online right now are positive, some VERY positive(example: above). Some of the reviews aren't on RT yet though. There are more than six.
The anticipation is KILLING ME.
Now that I'm living in San Diego, I can go see this in IMAX!!!! Wahooooo!
Msg #95: On 7/5/2010 at 11:44:51 PM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: Okay that's it, I'm gonna plan a big trip with my friends to see it in IMAX the day after it comes out.
This is gonna be the greatest movie ever. EVER.
Msg #96: On 7/6/2010 at 2:09:01 PM, Adam replied, saying: How did I not know until now that the entire film was shot in 65mm? That's just... wow. That's a first isn't it? Not counting Discovery channel docos. Replies: 97, 100
Msg #97: On 7/6/2010 at 4:10:21 PM, JPJunkee replied to Msg #96, saying: There have been others to shoot on 65mm. Playtime is the best example and it's beautiful. Baraka, too, just gorgeous.
Stop pissing on my parade, you son of a bitch. This movie is going to rule. Replies: 105
Msg #103: On 7/7/2010 at 2:59:03 AM, Colin replied to Msg #101, saying: Link me, please. I was looking for somewhere to show me that there were scenes in 65mm and I couldn't find any. Replies: 104, 110
Msg #104: On 7/7/2010 at 3:01:22 AM, PaulSF replied to Msg #103, saying: http://www.slashfilm.com/2010/03/25/christopher-nolan-filmed-some-of-inception-using-65mm-calls-3d-an-interesting-development/
From article:
They shot the majority of the film using anamorphic 35mm, but Nolan says they “shot key sequences on 65mm” with “5 perf not 15 perf,” and they “shot VistaVision on certain other sequences.” For those of you who aren’t film tech geeks, this is a significant difference: 65mm 5 perf gives you 4.2 times the available image area behind the lens compared to regular four perf 35mm. Go check out the 1992 documentary Baraka to see what 65mm 5 perf can look like. The result is very vivid, practically no grain. In IMAX the film should look amazing.
Msg #105: On 7/7/2010 at 3:15:53 AM, Narrator replied to Msg #102, saying: Hey fuckhead, I didn't say it was going to be bad.
I was saying going into a movie thinking it's going to be the best movie ever EVER is a set up for disappointment
You can be excited for something without being a fanboy.
Never question me, for I am my own source. And I am never wrong!
Msg #111: On 7/9/2010 at 10:48:56 AM, Carnage141 replied, saying: Here is a video of Nolan saying they shot a good deal of Inception in 65mm.
I was looking at the top movies of all time and nothing has a higher rating than that. Though I doubt Inception will hold that 9.3 once more reviews come in. Replies: 116
Msg #116: On 7/11/2010 at 3:29:20 PM, Phily replied to Msg #115, saying: Where do you see the average rating on RT? All I see is a fat 100%.
Msg #117: On 7/11/2010 at 8:14:54 PM, Pteranadon2003 replied, saying: New banners for INCEPTION. I am gonna buy the second one for sure. It's so sick.
HOPEFULLY HE COMES BACK AND SAYS IT WAS THE GREATEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD.
Msg #122: On 7/12/2010 at 11:41:46 PM, Carnotaur3 replied, saying: Not a review, yet, but I seriously need to ponder for a while. I'll just leave you with a few words for right now.
Nolan has crafted a film that works viscerally, emotionally, and satisfyingly well. Even when the film ends you're left thinking. For something so heady, he does a fantastic job letting you know what it's all about... until you figure out there's something more beneath the surface. Something you don't seem to realize. And maybe, just before the screen cuts to black, you see it. Maybe it's there.
HIGHLIGHT to Read Dom Cobb is a skilled thief, the absolute best in the dangerous art of extraction, stealing valuable secrets from deep within the subconscious during the dream state, when the mind is at its most vulnerable. Cobb's rare ability has made him a coveted player in this treacherous new world of corporate espionage, but it has also made him an international fugitive and cost him everything he has ever loved. Now Cobb is being offered a chance at redemption. One last job could give him his life back but only if he can accomplish the impossible: inception. Instead of the perfect heist, Cobb and his team of specialists have to pull off the reverse: their task is not to steal an idea but to plant one. If they succeed, it could be the perfect crime. But no amount of careful planning or expertise can prepare the team for the dangerous enemy that seems to predict their every move. An enemy that only Cobb could have seen coming.
Msg #126: On 7/13/2010 at 7:24:41 AM, Adam replied, saying: I have a fairly good understanding of what it is about based purely on all the trailers I've watched... don't even need to read Ptera's hidden thing.
A team of people - who steal secrets from people's subconscious while planting them in artificial dreams - are asked to do a big job that involves quite the opposite; planting an idea in a man's subconscious without him realising. This is called 'inception'.
Might not be as detailed as the explanation Ptera posted but it is all I need to know that this is an incredibly original idea and one I am quite excited to see put into motion in a film. Dreams and the power of a man's subconscious are things that have always interested me, so this is right up my alley.
Then you have to wait two days before we can all read it, XD.
Msg #129: On 7/13/2010 at 4:24:23 PM, Trainwreck replied, saying: Hmm. I know this movie is going to rock, since it's Nolan and he's got good actors, Hans Zimmer, stunning visuals, etc. But I just can't get overly excited about the overall idea. I hope there's a lot more to it than we've seen in the trailers (I know there's gotta be, I mean, it's Nolan right?)...but still. I can't imagine this topping The Prestige. Replies: 131
Msg #130: On 7/13/2010 at 4:58:25 PM, Carnotaur3 replied, saying: Believe it, Chris. Believe it!
Msg #131: On 7/13/2010 at 5:17:10 PM, Raptor Vinny replied to Msg #129, saying: TW, were you truly blown away by any trailers for The Prestige? I know I wasn't. It wasn't till I saw the movie and got mindfucked by the subtle nuances and awesome narrative throughout rather than the actual premise.
I AM blown away by these trailers and the premise...... and that scares me. Replies: 132
Msg #132: On 7/13/2010 at 6:03:53 PM, Trainwreck replied to Msg #131, saying: No I wasn't, and that's why I have hope in the hype...but I'm not about to proclaim it the greatest movie ever made. Haha Replies: 134
Msg #133: On 7/13/2010 at 10:51:50 PM, Varan101 replied, saying: I just hope I understand what's going on in this movie, haha
Msg #134: On 7/14/2010 at 12:09:18 AM, raptor2000 replied to Msg #132, saying: No matter what I see or read about this movie, I just can't seem to get interested or excited about it. Whenever I see the trailers with people walking on the walls I can't help but think of that one scene in Mary Poppins where they are all floating against the ceiling. I just want them to be done with all this Inception promotion and whatnot so they can get started on Batman 3.
Msg #139: On 7/14/2010 at 2:41:26 AM, PaulSF replied, saying: The "brainless" comment is actually Rex Reed; worse than White, IMO. White is an irritating troll make no mistake, but Rex Reed sincerely believes his bullshit and is somehow a well respected top critic. This is the same guy that said "Batman Begins is for morons." Replies: 143
Msg #140: On 7/14/2010 at 3:13:03 AM, Carnotaur3 replied, saying: Rex Reed's review of Inception was garbage.
Msg #141: On 7/14/2010 at 5:48:13 AM, Trainwreck replied to Msg #137, saying: I "shit" all over Avatar because it WAS a piece of shit movie. All of my criticisms were completely legitimate.
I'm not even downing this movie. Did you miss the part where I said I thought it'd be awesome? I'm gonna see it on Saturday too, so I'm pretty pumped because so far most summer movies have been pretty "meh".
Msg #142: On 7/14/2010 at 7:25:47 PM, Pteranadon2003 replied, saying: My new facebook profile picture lol
And TW, not all of your criticisms were legitimate IMO, but whatever. I'm not starting that debate again. I'm glad you're pumped for Inception.
Msg #144: On 7/16/2010 at 2:29:12 AM, Narrator replied, saying: Waiting to see the midnight showing. Im pretty tired but hey if i fall asleep I wont know the difference! Hey O.
Msg #145: On 7/16/2010 at 4:36:56 AM, PaulSF replied, saying: I need sleep but what comes to mind first after many potential lines to put here, eventually overruled for their long-windedness, is simply this: Inception is a masterpiece. One of the most intelligent, engrossing, exciting works of cinema of the 21st century. I meant to stop at "masterpiece". Oh well.
Msg #146: On 7/16/2010 at 5:37:56 AM, PaulSF replied, saying: - opening was more exciting than most climaxes - Tom Hardy was great - Joseph Gordon-Levitt was superb - zero gravity fight scene was short but absurdly and phenomenally tour de force - editing was masterful in whole new ways - hans zimmer rocked this - whole film for me was like a third act rush and the third act itself was just batshit insane fuck-great - loved the balls on the ending shot
Msg #147: On 7/16/2010 at 6:34:16 AM, Narrator replied, saying: Just got back.... Don't really know what to say about this... Where to start?
Well first of all
"Msg #13: On 5/8/2010 at 10:59:49 PM, Narrator replied, saying: Obvious plot twist is obvious"
;) what'd I tell ya.
I guess I'll talk about how I felt in chronological order.
Good Nolanesque beginning. I liked the first half of the film. It wasn't perfect, and there was hardly any clear transition between scenes which at first I thought was kinda annoying because it made it feel a little to fast paced like a trailer. Then I thought, well that's how dreams are, and even though the scenes I'm talking about took place in the real world, maybe it's a clever nod to the premise of the movie. Some minor complaints about general things about dreams and psychology they got wrong.
By the second half and especially the third act I didn't care at all about the minor complaints. They explained away a few of the complaints, and the others didn't matter. The 2nd and 3rd acts were frikin great. I went "hmm this is cool... interesting but nothing specialllholyshit! awesome!" The gravity shifting hallway battle=pure awesome. I wish it lasted longer, and didn't cut away but I understand it had to. It had me on the edge of my seat, I must say. It wasn't quite as emotional as it could of been but much more than I thought it would be. When the end was near I thought that this could be one of the greats. It's not my favorite movie because it didn't give me that emotional kick I love from what my absolute favorite movie is but that's personal preference. There was no denying that this was great.
Great... until that very. Last. Frame. That frame which RUINED EVERYTHING! I walked out pretty pissed. Obvious plot twist is obvious. I went in expecting good but not exceptional film that might go this rout. Then the film turned into something outstanding. Then at the very last second... shit. The ending could have been much better, and ended on an emotional note. But for some reason Nolan thought he'd through that twist in which didn't surprise it just angered. He's better than that. That belongs in a mediocre movie, not in this movie. It made me so mad because the rest of the movie was superb. Devin Feracl in his review said it's not really a twist. A smart viewer can see it coming. Yes. We can see it coming. I saw it coming from the trailer! That doesn't make it ok. It doesn't belong. Bush. That's bush league. This didn't need a twist.
That one final moment man.... The tension was building... Building.. building... and everything could have been so satisfying if it just happened. That would have been great. A simple thing like that would have been so emotionally satisfying. But they went the other way with it. But hey, it brought new meaning to the scenes with no transitions. I don't know if that was intentional but at least there's that for whatever its worth.
It's not a plot twist. By cutting right before the topple, it leaves the audience guessing as to what they perceived that reality. Was him being back with his kids the dream or the real thing? Or was the whole film the dream? Cobb's way to navigating through his mind by coming up with this idea that he can enter dreams through an action heist plot. But this is all exactly the point! You have become Cobb. You have no idea what reality is anymore after everything you've witnessed.
The work of a master knows that leaving the audience THINKING is what makes a work a masterpiece. Leave them talking and you've hooked them forever.
Replies: 149, 151
Msg #149: On 7/16/2010 at 11:50:01 AM, Stealth Raptor2 replied to Msg #148, saying: I personally loved the ending, and while yes it may have been easy to see coming, it's only because it's the point of pretty much the entire film. The difficulty of determining between reality and dream.
Msg #150: On 7/16/2010 at 3:02:13 PM, Colin replied, saying: Funny thing (and this could be like the Hitchcockian Psycho-esque knife touching the skin) is that I swore I saw it wobbling right before the last cut, in the dream it never seemed to wobble, it was perfectly spinning.
Definitely not a twist, though, Narrator. Definitely an open-to-interpretation ending.
Msg #151: On 7/16/2010 at 3:03:03 PM, Narrator replied to Msg #148, saying: But it didn't leave me thinking. And it most certainly was a plot twist. What it did was piss me and some others I was with off. Replies: 154
Msg #152: On 7/16/2010 at 3:06:39 PM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: Exactly right, Colin. It wobbled slightly at the end to give you some real doubts as to whether it was a dream or reality.
Narrator, I can safely say you're fucking retarded if you call that a plot twist. No, really. You have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. First of all, Chase is 100%, spot on. As an added thought, I saw it as an homage to great ambiguous endings in other films throughout history. It was just a CLASSIC touch.
Msg #153: On 7/16/2010 at 3:14:01 PM, Carnotaur3 replied, saying: "Exactly right, Colin. It wobbled slightly at the end to give you some real doubts as to whether it was a dream or reality."
But if the whole film was a dream, it doesn't matter if the thing wobbled or not. This film BLOWS MY MIND!
Msg #154: On 7/16/2010 at 3:16:29 PM, Colin replied to Msg #151, saying: How is it a plot twist if it's open to an interpretation? It wobbles at the end, and that allows you to come to one of two conclusions. If it's left for you to decide, it's just not an ending with an incontrovertible finality, it is left to the viewer. Have you never heard of one of these endings?
Msg #155: On 7/16/2010 at 3:21:18 PM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: As for my thoughts on the actual film, I just cannot believe some of the criticisms it's getting. Like that it spends too much time explaining how the dreams work. First of all that shit was fascinating mythology thought up by Nolan. Second of all, without it, the entire film would have made no sense whatsoever, and there would have been zero tension.
Anyway...
- Every actor was perfect - Cinematography was the usual Pfister brilliance - The score was one of the best I've ever heard - The editing was just SPOT ON. The pacing was PERFECT. There were 4 levels of dreams and you were getting reminded of what was going on in each one at the perfect moment. I also thought it was brilliant how there was someone "awake" in each level to do some interesting shit rather than just cut quickly to it to remind the viewers. - Special effects were flawless. I never once thought "wow this doesn't feel real at all". - The tension was played up brilliantly. I mean when they established you don't die if you get shot.. that you just get caught in a 50 year limbo.. wow. That was REALLY creative of Nolan, and more importantly it sets it apart from The Matrix and other films with alternate reality. - All the heist shit was done to perfection. Like this is a textbook heist film, this is what you should watch if you want to be inspired to write one of your own. - The entire emotional character arc of Cobb was fantastic. How he can't let go, how his wife went mad and killed herself in front of him, the revelation that it was partly his fault. The entire film kept you guessing as to what was really going on. - The ending was perfect, I mean you get that great emotional moment when Cobb sees his kids again and can finally let go of his wife... and honestly, even if he's living in a dream as that CLASSIC AMBIGUOUS MOMENT may suggest, you still feel good for him for being able to move on and be happy again.
A+, 10/10, and upon further viewings (especially in IMAX), this could be up there as the greatest film I have ever seen.
Msg #156: On 7/16/2010 at 3:21:33 PM, Pteranadon2003 replied, saying: The ending is Nolan's gift to the audience. It is less to do with the movie than a question that Nolan poses to us regarding what we believe to be real or not.
I will post my thoughts later. I have to be able to properly articulate the incredible experience I had.
Msg #157: On 7/16/2010 at 3:23:39 PM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: Chase: ...I was gonna say something but holy shit you're right.
Colin: Yep, exactly. You nailed it. This is NOT a plot twist, because the viewer does not know if everything actually did play out like the movie suggested, or if the whole thing was a dream. It's not like the Sixth Sense where you were like "OH HE WAS DEAD THE WHOLE TIME." This movie is saying "Wait, was he dead the whole time?" That is the difference, and if you can't understand that then I dunno what to say to you.
Msg #158: On 7/16/2010 at 3:24:28 PM, Narrator replied, saying: It's the definition of a plot twist. And a cop out ending. It didn't leave me thinking. It left me unsatisfied and pissed. What's to think about? Vinny, you're clearly desperate to love this movie at all costs.
Msg #159: On 7/16/2010 at 3:36:52 PM, Colin replied, saying: Narrator, you've seen Minority Report, right?
Well, there's this theory that when John Anderton gets pegged for the thought-crime initially and he's put into the halo-tank area with all the other prisoners, the guy who watches after them mentions, when Anderton is down investigating, that people create entire realities and all their dreams come true. So several people gathered that all the events that happen AFTER the point of him being incarcerated are all in Anderton's head, his wife coming and getting him out, Anderton playing the video to reveal Burgess' true insidiousness and then having a happy ending with his wife pregnant again. Now, Inception ends with the open-to-interpretation right in our faces, but it still doesn't CLEARLY (depending on how you look at it) indicate either way.
Now, since Minority Report doesn't really present it as clearly as Inception does, the fact that people have conjured that theory (with merited reasons) may mean that the ending was open-to-interpretation. Does that mean that it is now a plot twist?
A plot twist entails finality. It can't be a twist if you don't know for certain it's a twist.
Msg #160: On 7/16/2010 at 3:37:00 PM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: No, you're being a complete fool and everyone in this thread is explaining why. All you can say is "IT WAS THE DEFINITION OF A PLOT TWIST". You're fucking delusional. A plot twist COMPLETELY CHANGES EVERYTHING YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THE FILM AND LEAVES NO AMBIGUITY. It says "Here, this is what was actually going on the whole time!"
What Nolan did was PLANT AN IDEA IN YOUR MIND (which is GENIUS btw considering what the movie is about) that throws doubt into how you perceive the movie.
Let me give you another example. In The Prestige it is revealed that Borden had a twin and that's how he did the trick. That was a plot twist. When you watch the movie again, you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that that is the case, and you can look for things that you never saw before that pointed to that eventual reveal.
In Inception, you DON'T KNOW. You go and watch it again and see if you can find any hints that point one way or the other. But there will NEVER BE A CLEAR ANSWER. How can it be a twist if the movie ACTUALLY PLAYED OUT EXACTLY AS IT WAS SHOWN? Because that IS how you can perceive the movie if you choose to say "the top wobbled, thus it was real".
I still don't know why you think the ending was bad. It fit the theme of the movie brilliantly. The main theme was doubt between what is reality and what is not. The ending played that up to perfection. Replies: 173
Msg #161: On 7/16/2010 at 3:59:11 PM, Carnotaur3 replied, saying: Getting passed Narrator's understanding (or lack there of) for what's going on, I'm just gonna further talk about the reasons why I feel the whole movie was a dream...
The idea that he might have killed her could just be his inner fear, that he didn't do enough and that he accidentally suggested for her to do something. If you notice in the supposed flashbacks with Mal that he unknowingly motions for her to come inside when she's on the opposing balcony. This could be intentional. His motions are weirdly saying come over here, which would be impossible as if she moved forward she'd fall off. He, however, is meaning for her to step back inside her room, not the one he is occupying. As small of a detail this is, he can't get over the MIXED signal he just gave her: The hand motion in the real world or the detailed implant he gives her in the dream. It's all the same.
If you recall that he mentions halfway though the film to Ariadne that he keeps these dreams in his mind so that he can later rework them.
Msg #162: On 7/16/2010 at 4:18:38 PM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: Yes, I noticed the hand motions being off as well. And as genius as Nolan's screenplays are, I doubt this was an accident.
Msg #163: On 7/16/2010 at 9:25:11 PM, PaulSF replied, saying: that very. Last. Frame. That frame which RUINED EVERYTHING!
It's kind of depressing, really. Other movies just seem dull now.
Msg #165: On 7/17/2010 at 12:59:44 AM, Pteranadon2003 replied, saying: The film was a massive achievement in every department. Nolan's best work and a true masterpiece. It was SO layered, and SO dense and that last 3rd of the movie just let all those questions and plot threads play out beautifully. It had humor, great characters you liked to be around, amazing visuals, made possible by the incredible ideas behind them. EVERYTHING had a point, none of it was mindless. It was emotionally and psychologically fascinating, as well as being a gift to watch. A privilege. It was just damn fun to watch, and to think about. I'm thinking about right now. In fact, and don't think I'm going over the top, it actually made me perceive my reality on the drive home. Everything about the world seemed more layered and real. Like...it was fun to speculate if I was awake or asleep myself. Actually, the movie convinced me to try a few things in my dreams from now on, so I can lucid dream more often.
It's just...so fucking amazing. 5/5. The best movie of the year, and maybe the last few years.
PS. Jason Gordon-Levitt is the MAN. He needs to be in more stuff. He is just so cool and such a treat to watch. Oh and Leo needs to get an Oscar nom for this role. just superb.
Msg #166: On 7/17/2010 at 1:04:02 AM, Phily replied, saying: Man, Vinny and Paul were spot on with their reviews. Took the words straight outta my mouth. Utter Nolanic brilliance. We must clone this man for future generations.
In a few words.. Lee Smith must get the Oscar for Best Editing, Wally Pfister must get the Oscar for Best Cinematography (unless Eduardo Serra can nab it for Harry Potter) and nearly every actor portrayed their characters with absolute brilliance. I'll take special mention of Joseph Gordon-Levitt who took bad-assery to a whole new level. Tom Hardy, Ellen Page, Ken Watanabe, and of course, arguably the greatest actor in this generation, Leo Dicaprio.. all excellent.
My only gripe was that I missed the first 10 or 15 minutes of the movie.. just arriving when the first architect, Nash, was being taken away. This will be easily remedied by my eventual second viewing.
All in all, 4 out of 4 stars. Best film (not counting TS3), of the year so far.
Msg #167: On 7/17/2010 at 2:19:00 AM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: Yeah, it would have been interesting to see the first thing unfold, but oh well. I loved how Nolan dedicated like an hour and a half to the REAL heist. If they spent like half an hour on the first one it would have felt like a waste of time almost.
And I agree, Lee Smith should at least get a nomination and in a perfect world deserves to win because it was FLAWLESS editing of a movie with incredible depth. You know how the Academy is though.
I'm so fucking glad I let myself get caught in the hype though. I just knew this film was going to be special.. to have my faith rewarded like that was fantastic. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. I know this sounds cheesy, but Paul and I were discussing how fucking glad we are to be alive when this movie came out and to be appreciative of film the way we are.
Msg #168: On 7/17/2010 at 3:44:45 AM, JPJunkee replied, saying: I think I loved the film. It's so deep and dense though, that I feel I need a few more days to better articulate how I feel about it and other finer points. A second viewing would be good, too. I don't just want to see it again, but Inception is the kind of film that practically demands that you see it more than once.
Shares the top spot with Toy Story 3 as the best of 2010.
Msg #169: On 7/17/2010 at 5:22:02 AM, PaulSF replied, saying: Second viewing solidified it: Inception will have me wanting to discuss, deconstruct, and experience for years to come as much as any great film I've seen this century. On an original, artistic level it recalls the heartbreaking and illuminating sensation of Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind. On a visceral, exciting level it packs the punch of a perfect James Bond thriller mixed with sheer grandiose invention.
Msg #170: On 7/17/2010 at 5:25:16 PM, Monkappotamus replied, saying: It's really too bad no one on this web site liked Inception ;) I just saw it for the first time, and I think it's very good... although I'm not quite ready to anoint it legendary status yet. I really just need to see it again, because I came away with a number of questions, mostly about the mechanics of Nolan's dream world, but some more meaningful ones, too.
Thoughts after my first viewing are as follows. The beginning was really well done; I kind of fought to keep my head above the water as far as keeping track of what was going on, but mercifully things start to fall into place before long. I really liked all of the casting decisions, from Leo to Ellen Page to Gordon-Levitt. Obviously, the whole concept is intriguing and it keeps you thinking. However...
At least from a first viewing, I felt like there was just too much going on in this movie. Some ideas or characters or situations that I found very intriguing simply couldn't be given enough development or continuity. At the same time, I felt that the ending was dragged out a bit. I understand it wasn't done so gratuitously, but a sense of inevitably came at some point and it felt like the metaphorical roller coaster took too long to drop.
I also didn't feel particularly invested emotionally, as Narrator also said. The stakes of the film, essentially, are Leo getting to go back to a normal life and a company not being allowed to form a world-dominating bloc. Of course, once they start the mission there's also the possibility of being trapped in the dream "loop," but the two main plot drivers didn't really resonate (we aren't shown enough of Leo's prior life for it to matter to me).
Finally, I feel this film also suffers somewhat, and to no fault at all of it own, of following on Shutter Island from earlier this year. I just kept thinking about SI at various points throughout Inception, of the similar elements (Leo as an agent, with a deceased wife who haunts him, and a similar ambiguity of dream vs. reality). I had the same experience with the new Star Trek film and its similarities to the previous Trek film. It's unfortunate, but it's there.
Regardless, I definitely want to see this at least one more time to clear up some confusion and just experience the complex work again. It does a lot of things well, if not exceptionally well, but after a first viewing, I do have the few previously stated reservations.
Msg #171: On 7/17/2010 at 5:31:05 PM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: I thought Nolan did a great job of explaining how the dreamworlds worked and this was great because I never questioned just why the fuck something was happening.
I do think you have some legit concerns though, they just didn't bother me as much as they did for you.
Msg #172: On 7/17/2010 at 6:18:04 PM, Monkappotamus replied, saying: Yeah, I had no problem with the amount of explanation involved. But there was so much needing to be explained that I want another viewing, if nothing else, to catch what slipped through the cracks, lol.
Msg #173: On 7/17/2010 at 8:20:46 PM, Narrator replied to Msg #160, saying: First of all the ending is not ambiguous. If you payed any attention, it' clearly not reality. His kids are in the same clothes, the exact same age, doing the same thing as when he left. It's his fantasy. When I say the last frame ruined everything, I'm exaggerating. It didn't ruin everything and it was clear before the last frame that it was a dreamTherealre were clues all throughout the movie that this would be a twist at the end. Whats really frustrating isn't that there was a twist but that it ends with Cobb getting a resolution. He's trapped in a fantasy world and isn't reunited with his real kids or reality. I was craving an emotionally satisfying ending and this wasn't one.
It's not hard to plant an idea in someones mind. A LOT of movies do this. I guess the idea he planted in your mind that stuck was that it's super hard to do this, thus you were REALLY impressed.
I'm not denying this movie was great. It was. And it DID get me thinking. And I'm still thinking. But the ending isn't what is getting me thinking.
It's still a solid 4/5 for me. And the ending wasn't terrible compared to other films. It was executed greatly, but I think compared to the rest of the film it's sub par.
Msg #174: On 7/17/2010 at 8:33:34 PM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: I'm not saying how it affected me was genius, I'm saying that planting an idea in people's heads so that it fits with the theme of the movie is a genius move.
And no, it's not clearly a dream. If you ask Nolan himself I bet he will tell you it's supposed to be ambiguous.
Msg #175: On 7/17/2010 at 9:38:12 PM, Trainwreck replied, saying: Excellent movie, was just as good as I thought it would be, and not a hair more. If I had to rank Nolan's movies, I'd put them in this order:
1. The Prestige 2. Inception 3. Batman Begins 4. Memento 5. The Dark Knight
That's the most objective I can place them, anyway. Being a huge Batman fan, my personal fave is Batman Begins, and The Dark Knight would have to be #4 right above Memento, but whatever.
Another excellent Zimmer score, though far from his best. Kinda sad that his soundtracks for King Arthur, The Rock, Crimson Tide, and a few others are better despite being far lesser movies.
Msg #176: On 7/17/2010 at 9:49:11 PM, Pteranadon2003 replied, saying: "It's not hard to plant an idea in someones mind."
Are you kidding me? Of course it is! In the sense that the movie means anyway. When they mean plant an idea, they are essentially thinking FOR someone but making it untraceable as a foreign idea. They said in the film, that although you may think something's your idea, if it was suggested to you by someone or something, there's always traces and that if you tried hard enough you'd be able trace back the origin of the idea. They had to make Murphy's character believe without a doubt, that it was HIM that came up with the idea.
Just my two cents
And the ending is ambiguous, and I'm sticking by that. There are signs that point to the "happy" ending as well, as we never know how long he's been out of the country, and the phone call between him and his kids they sound really young still and are still asking about the mother. Although you could just say THAT was in a dream as well.
Also, I think the ending was ambiguous cause whether it was a dream or not, Cobb made it back to his kids in whatever reality he finally accepted, dream or otherwise. He couldn't bring himself to see his kids again until he resolved things with his wife. At the end he's happy and doesn't even look at the top long enough to see if it topples over or not. Besides, my Uncle Billy was almost positive he saw the thing wobble a bit before the cut to black. I'm petty sure I saw that too.
Msg #177: On 7/18/2010 at 12:05:40 AM, Narrator replied, saying: 1 no its not hard to plant an idea. Dispite what the movie said, reality, specifically psychology and nuroscience disagree. Any good con man can plant an idea. Any good story teller that wants to mislead the reader or audience can plant an idea. 2 it was pretty clearly a dream and how can you say it doesnt matter? If its a dream theres no resolution. 3 all ambiguity or not aside, it was an ending meant to screw with the audience and in my book that wasnt cool. At that point in the movie I cared about cobb and wanted him to be reunitef with his kids. It would have been much better if they went that rout.
Msg #178: On 7/18/2010 at 1:13:20 AM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: You're fucking stupid. End of story.
Con men do not PLANT ORIGINAL IDEAS. They just take something and twist it. Good fucking luck convincing someone to just break up his entire monopolistic inheritance without seriously fucking with his subconscious.
It is NOT CLEARLY A DREAM. JESUS.
THE ENDING IS NOT MEANT TO "SCREW" WITH THE AUDIENCE. IT CLEARLY FITS THE THEME OF THE FILM, THAT IS THE POINT OF IT. AND LIKE WILL SAID, THE THING WOBBLES AT THE END.
And I watched the movie again and it's hinted at THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE FILM that Cobb might just be dreaming the whole thing. A PLOT TWIST WOULD NOT DO THAT, IT WOULD JUST ALL OF A SUDDEN BE LIKE "HEY IT'S ACTUALLY ALL A DREAM JUST LIKE SUPER MARIO BROS 2, FUCK YOU FOR GETTING EMOTIONALLY INVESTED!" A top spinning for 30 seconds straight and WOBBLING AT THE END (every other instance, it just kept going and going with no wobbling whatsoever) is NOT DEFINITIVE PROOF THAT HE IS DREAMING.
Msg #179: On 7/18/2010 at 1:40:25 AM, Narrator replied, saying: You cant be serious. Stories woth plot twists ALWAYS give clues! And Ive already said the movie gave clue after clue. Nice try.
If it wasnt a dream why were his kids exactally how he left them? Exact same clothes, same age doing the exact same thing. Besides, the purpose of an ambiguous ending is to screw with the audience.
Con men make you think exactally what they want you to think. What you said makes zero sense.
Msg #180: On 7/18/2010 at 1:53:06 AM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: YOU'RE SAYING NOLAN TRICKED US. THAT IS THE POINT I AM ADDRESSING. THERE WAS NO TRICKERY. HE SAID LOOK, THIS MIGHT BE A DREAM. THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE. FUCKING. MOVIE. Replies: 183
Msg #181: On 7/18/2010 at 2:22:09 AM, IKK_Viper replied, saying: Just got back from seeing this movie...HOLY FUCK! What a masterpiece. The cinematography, the story, the way everything just flows throughout the entire movie. I'm going to be seeing this again. I just know there's a shit ton more intellectual things that I missed...my mind has been blown...
Msg #182: On 7/18/2010 at 2:33:08 AM, Archaeopteryx replied, saying: Why does Tom Hardy keep playing slightly homoesq characters, its not helping my unhealthy obsession.
That his kids were doing the same thing and were the same age is not surprising - how long has he been gone? The movie makes it feel as though it's only been a few months. They're doing the same thing? Oh holy shit, maybe every Sunday afternoon (or whatever day it was) it's their time to go play in the yard together. Who the hell knows? Maybe those are their outdoor clothes. People wear the same clothes all the time, ya know. That is all circumstantial evidence that it's a dream, but it's not hard proof. His totem wobbling multiple times at the end (yeah it did wobble right before the fade to black, and several seconds before that even) is circumstantial evidence that it's reality. But we can't tell for sure one way or the other, obviously. Personally, I think of it as a dream.
It was simply the best ending that the movie could have had. Replies: 186, 188
Msg #186: On 7/18/2010 at 5:12:48 PM, Pteranadon2003 replied to Msg #185, saying: I concur. The most important thing to note is that we don't know how long Cobb was gone. It might've not THAT long. That scene when he talked to his kids on the phone they sounded really young still and were still asking about their Mom. It might've only been 6 months-a year. Then again...you could say that phone call was a dream as well. Replies: 187
Msg #187: On 7/18/2010 at 5:57:08 PM, Evilgrinch replied to Msg #186, saying: Un-fucking-believable.
More thoughts soon.
Replies: 196
Msg #188: On 7/18/2010 at 7:24:59 PM, Narrator replied to Msg #185, saying: You're rationalizing the ending. Making excuses for it so it can make sense. "Maybe those are their out door clothes they wear every time they go outside to do the same thing blah blah blah" The simpler solution is they are part of Cobbs fantasy. They are exactly how he left them. He can be with his kids as if no time had passes.
It was far from the best ending possible for this film.
Vinny you have ceased to make any sense at all Replies: 190
Msg #189: On 7/18/2010 at 7:40:14 PM, drucifer67 replied, saying: Dream or reality, the ending is still emotionally satisfying...because it is Cobb's reality. He's made it back to his kids, even if it's only in his mind.
Best fucking movie I've seen in a very, very long time.
Msg #190: On 7/18/2010 at 8:55:52 PM, Trainwreck replied to Msg #188, saying: No, I'm not rationalizing at all. Looking at the evidence objectively, there's no telling decisively if it's real or not. You may have your opinion and that's fine, but you can't say that the movie says it is so because it doesn't. Replies: 191
Msg #191: On 7/18/2010 at 9:56:32 PM, Narrator replied to Msg #190, saying: Saying "maybe those are just their out door clothes, maybe they go digging in the ground outside every sunday," is rationalizing. It's a movie, and considering what this movie is about, it's clearly significant and not a coincidence that the kids are in the same clothes doing the same thing and have not aged. What your saying would require that Nolan, after making a movie that requires the audience to really pay attention to detail, a movie which gives hits and message largely passed on visuals, decided at the end to go "eh, the audience won't really think the kids are significant in this scene"
Msg #192: On 7/18/2010 at 11:12:06 PM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: Literally facepalming right now.
Yes Narrator, clearly everyone here makes no sense, and the ending is not as good as everyone here is telling you. It doesn't fit the movie AT ALL, we're just all fucking stupid I guess for giving you tons of reasons as to why the ending fits, while you sit there and give one sentence answers. You're the sane one.
Just in case: /sarcasm.
Msg #193: On 7/18/2010 at 11:28:51 PM, PaulSF replied, saying: This is why I haven't bothered and Narrator has once again proven why with this. His picture would be in a wiki article right at the top if there was one on why not everyone is capable of film discussion. He doesn't pay attention and refuses to acknowledge any validity of someone elses clearly valid points. It's clearly just all of us fuck-ups that are making this shit up on the fly. You just kind of have to chuckle and move on, summed up in the gif I posted. I already knew he wouldn't budge on that no matter what.
Msg #194: On 7/18/2010 at 11:52:40 PM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: See, I should have had your reaction, Paul, but instead I had this reaction:
I was scared.
Msg #199: On 7/19/2010 at 4:59:21 AM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: Yeah it's pretty irritating but I've gotten used to it as well. Replies: 200
Msg #200: On 7/19/2010 at 5:41:56 AM, Evilgrinch replied to Msg #199, saying: ‘Inception’ is as immaculately crafted as anything Christopher Nolan’s produced, but with an emotional core that elevates it to the upper echelon of Hollywood pictures produced in the last ten years. Until now, it’s been argued that Nolan’s big problem has been grafting genuine feeling onto his unorthodox structures, precise plotting and weighty themes, but with ‘Inception’ it seems he’s finally cracked his one remaining imperfection. Having an anchor as capable as DiCaprio helps, but its Nolan’s screenplay that must ultimately be given credit for centering events on Cobb’s familial desires.
Nolan’s movie is the result of a visionary director being given full studio support and full creative freedom to bring bold, complicated ideas and images to the big screen inside of the (usual confines) of a mega-budgeted Hollywood picture. It’s one of those rare occasions where a filmmaker has been handed the tools to unleash his wildest, most audacious creative impulses without fear or limitation - all the depth and ingenuity of an independent production with the sheen of a blockbuster. Even when the screen blossoms with unusual imagery and spectacular action, there’s never a moment of coldness or distance – Nolan nails down meaning and purpose in every scene, all coming back to the Cobb characters ultimate objective. Few working directors have this level of control and focus.
‘Inception’ may be amongst the best audience responses I’ve ever witnessed to a movie. It’s going to take a while before people start to deconstruct the thing, but the buzz in the cinema as we zipped between layers of dreamworld was palpable in the air. Applause filled the room upon conclusion as persons bustled out into the foyer debating, discussing and speculating as to the intricacies and implications of those final scenes. You don’t see many that have that effect.
PS EvilGrinch, that CHUD article was a fascinating read. Really made me think. :)
Msg #202: On 7/19/2010 at 3:17:57 PM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: That CHUD article is fucking brilliant. I was actually thinking during the second viewing that a LOT of shit just happens pretty conveniently, which could be explained by it being a dream.
Also, I love the point about how even if it is all a dream, that it still means something. That's what we were all discussing before about the emotional reaction to the ending. It fascinates me how I can be so moved to tears and open weeping at movies. Especially a show like Lost, where it seems like I know the characters from it better than a lot of my casual friends and thus things that happen to the characters make me feel stronger emotional reaction. Who are we to say this isn't real?
Such a powerful movie.
Msg #203: On 7/19/2010 at 6:11:23 PM, Narrator replied, saying: So even though the concensus here and everywhere else is that it was a dream, given all the clues and hints that point to it being a dream, its still, for some reason, ambiguous... Ok whatever
Chase, all anyone has said here to defend the ending is "IT FIT THE TONE! IT WAS THE PERFECT ENDING" I gave my reasons why I didn't like it, but apparently just saying that the ending was good is a fine way to argue against my points.
"Yes Narrator, clearly everyone here makes no sense,"
Didn't say everyone. I said vinny.
You guys are giving this movie WAY too much credit.
Msg #204: On 7/19/2010 at 9:37:13 PM, JPJunkee replied, saying: A lot of people are talking about the ending, and I'm going to chime in on something that I was thinking about.
Christopher Nolan has said many times that one of his favorite films (if not his #1 favorite film) is Ridley Scott's Blade Runner. And I think the ending of Inception is very much inspired by Blade Runner: The Director's Cut or The Final Cut. (Spoilers for Blade Runner follow) At the very end of Blade Runner, as Deckard is getting into the elevator, we see an origami unicorn left in the hall by Gaff's character. This leads one to start guessing, speculating that perhaps Deckard is in fact a replicant because he has these dreams involving a unicorn. The scene has the same look and the same effect of the spinning top at the end of Inception. And the fact that the unicorn is something from Deckard's dreams, I think it's fairly likely that Nolan might have meant this as some sort of nod to his favorite film, or at least he might have been inspired by it. Also like Inception, the ending of Blade Runner has some people still confused and still a little bewildered. If I remember correctly, even Harrison Ford didn't like that final moment of the film, refusing to believe that his character had been a replicant all along. Just as the spinning top has people wondering if Cobb was in a dream all along or never left Limbo or what. I mean, it's all just some speculation on my part, but just thought I'd throw it out there.
As far as the whole film goes, I really like it. It's some of the most creative stuff to come out of Hollywood in so long. Like Monk, I am hesitant to bestow the rank of Legendary upon the film just yet. It's good, I mean, it's great. But I can't find myself calling it a modern classic yet. Some parts of the film left me a little cold. It spent so much time building and explaining the world that it didn't always take the time to develop the characters. Now, all the characters are pretty cool and the performances are very solid so maybe I'm asking for too much. But I guess sometimes I just felt a little distant. The film is experienced so much with the mind and not enough with the heart. Something like that.
Critics are fond of comparing Inception with the works of Stanley Kubrick. I think I get that, though I still maintain that it has more in common with vintage Ridley Scott. Anyway, I find that Kubrick films really do get better each time you see them (with the exception of Eyes Wide Shut, which is still very good, but to me it has the opposite effect and crumbles just a little bit with each viewing). So, I would like to believe the same goes for Inception.
Despite some critiques, I really do like this film a lot. It's so damn cool. The zero-G fight with Joseph Gordon-Levitt is among the coolest things ever. And the city bending over on top of itself (something the marketing showed so much of that I feared it would lose all impact in the actual film) was so awesome. Iconic. Deep ideas. Great performances. Awesome action sequences.
Often times when I rate films, I find that I look back on them later on and realize I was a bit too forgiving and the rating should go down a peg or two. My year end report cards are much more accurate than any rating directly following watching a movie. Inception may be the rare case where after watching it a couple more times, I might raise the rating even higher. Great film either way.
5/5
Msg #206: On 7/20/2010 at 11:51:32 PM, Phily replied, saying: Saw it again. Now I understand everything and caught everything I've missed the first time around. Holy crap this film works on so many different levels! Levels.. dreams.. ahh! So good.
Msg #207: On 7/22/2010 at 10:14:24 AM, Adam replied, saying: I'm going to point out a couple of no-brainers right here.
1. Inception was a masterpiece. I have not felt this feeling in a long, long time. I have NEVER experienced coming out of a cinema with precisely 14 friends and have each and every last one of them unanimously praise the film we've just watched. We cannot stop talking about it all; the complexity, the ideas, the beautifully ambiguous ending... basically everything this film leaves you thinking about, everything it leaves spinning through your mind. I feel mentally drained. The whole experience was -fittingly enough - like a dream.
2. Narrator Fail No. 6.
In summary; Jesus Christ, I need to watch this again. I'm almost angry that I won't have time to until at least next weekend. Fuck.
Msg #208: On 7/22/2010 at 1:23:58 PM, Trainwreck replied, saying: I forgot to mention earlier (not that any of you give a crap); a few weeks ago I had a multi-layered dream of the sort that they had in Inception. I can recall about five or six dreams-within-dreams, and I kept waking up to a completely new setting each time. Every time I woke up, I honestly felt awake. It was one of the "realest" dreams I've ever had (excepting the one time I was able to lucid dream - now THAT was a trip!).
Any theory that it's all just a dream will have to not derive from the top because it definitely was about to fall before the end credits. I thought it was clear the first time I saw it till people talked me out of it, and this time I was certain by paying close attention to every time it spun in dreams.
I don't even think Nolan meant for the ending to be ambiguous (at least in the top's regard), it was just a cool effect to show the top STARTING to falter before cutting to black rather than having it slow all the day down. Similar to ending X-2 as we're STARTING to see Phoenix coming out of the water. Perhaps Nolan just overestimated his audience.
Msg #213: On 7/23/2010 at 2:01:00 PM, Carnotaur3 replied, saying: I've been really thinking about what Nolan has done with the beginning of the film. How you see flashforwards of Cobb and Saito in limbo.
I don't think it's just an interesting narrative decision for the sake of it.
Have you ever had an idea for a movie or story that came to you? Usually it starts with some images that don't make much sense, and then later you feel in the gaps to conform that image.
That's exactly what Nolan is doing here... or rather, Cobb is doing. If the whole movie is a dream, he is creating his dream based on a few of these images. That's why the scene goes straight to the same location with Saito, Cobb and co. And guess what the first words out of Cobb's mouth are?
Nothing in what is supposed to be the real world makes sense. For one, there are special devices that allow this shared dreaming thing that are never explained. They're just there and taken as a given. There are other subtle inconsistencies and contradictions that noticed but can't think of any off the top of my head. Should have written them down. Things that we accept as reality while in dreams but realize are ridiculous when we wake up occur in the "real" world here. Nolan is a smart man, and would be aware of these things so I think it's pretty clear that it's a purposeful clue.
The top is irrelevant. What a totem is for is to make sure you're not in someone elses dream. If you're in your own dream, you make the world and if you think its reality a totem won't help you. And besides, it does wobble in the dream world. You can see it wobble when Saito spins it in limbo. His kids are probably the biggest clue. One can rationalize like TW did and say well maybe those are there outdoor clothes, etc etc, but Nolan pays attention and expects his audience to do so as well. He didn't put the kids in the same clothes, doing the same thing, looking the same for no damn reason. Like everything else in the movie, it had a purpose and to think otherwise is just silly.
"Narrator Fail No. 6. " I'm flattered that you're keeping track but giving 4/5 and not being entirely satisfied with the ending isn't a fail. It's an ending that aims to be intellectual and leave people thinking. It left me frustrated and I wanted an emotional ending. I want to know who the real Cobb is. I think the message here is that the dream has become his reality, but that's not good enough for me. I want to know if he really does have kids, why the hell he's dreaming about this, the list goes on. Maybe the "real" world is one big shared dream experiment and all the other characters are real people and dreaming as well.... But there's no use just blindly throwing around ideas like that.
Msg #216: On 7/24/2010 at 12:48:51 AM, dieterstark replied, saying: Saw this with some friends. Good, I think his wife jumping off the building actually went back to reality and tried to get him to "take a leap of faith" and come back to reality too but he stayed in the dream because his doubt won't let him leave. The whole wonderful movie was his mind, his dream, his creation to justify staying in this dream world and at the end, when his top stops spinning he finds peace, in his own right. Be it in a dream, or in real actual life; but I feel he was far to engulfed in the dream worlds to ever leave. Seeing the patients paying for hours of dreaming in the real world, giving them days even years in the dream world looked like an opium den.
A new addiction- to these dreams where you do not die, you are with the ones you love and you create what you want (there would be many dinosaur protectors of MY subconsciousness). This addiction is unlike any other; gripping and relentlessly perfect.
I went into this movie expecting nothing, and came out thinking. There are many endings/fates after the credits roll the director left us with to ponder, argue about and discuss.
But now all my friends try to incept my dreams, and extract things. Telling me they had to fight hundreds of velociraptors in my dream to get to my PIN number.
This made me literally lol
Msg #218: On 7/24/2010 at 6:07:00 AM, Colin replied, saying: "And besides, it does wobble in the dream world. You can see it wobble when Saito spins it in limbo."
It wobbles, but never falters when Saito spins it.
At the end, it is clearly losing momentum by faltering, so the only theories about it being a dream have to be based on other things aside from the top.
Also, everyone's talking about how Nolan is too good a screenwriter to miss something and the fact that it could be just a plot-hole hasn't crossed anyone's mind. Nolan has a perfect track record as a filmmaker, but his films aren't perfect and have been to known to have plot-holes from time to time. Dark Knight had several and there's always the popular "How does he remember his condition" in Memento.
"For one, there are special devices that allow this shared dreaming thing that are never explained. They're just there and taken as a given."
So I guess Star Wars is all just Luke's dream because none of the spaceships are explained how they were invented. That's retarded. People don't sit around and explain every five minutes how iPods were invented, when you set a futuristic world up, all the characters just accept everything because it's common for them, so there's no need for explanation.
Msg #219: On 7/24/2010 at 12:42:48 PM, The_Shniz replied, saying: For what it's worth I've seen the film in its entirety 3 times and I am a projectionist so I've seen different sections of the film numerous times during presentation checks.
The children are wearing different clothes at the end. The girl's dress is completely pink throughout the film but her sleeves are white at the end. The boy's plaid shirt has a dominating red line to the pattern, but at the end no color stands out more.
I like Hans Zimmer too, but damn it if it's not the typical 90's action movie score. Yuck! Replies: 232
Msg #232: On 7/26/2010 at 2:18:58 PM, Trainwreck replied to Msg #231, saying: C3, I expect this kind of FAIL from Narrator, but I don't expect it from you. The Rock is awesome because it has Connery, Cage and Harris. 'Nuff said.
The soundtrack is awesome because it's Zimmer's best work ever - which makes it the best movie soundtrack ever made. It easily shits on anything - ANYTHING - John Williams (that hack!) has made.
Msg #235: On 7/26/2010 at 8:35:45 PM, Narrator replied to Msg #232, saying: HEY! I love the Rock! And You're right about Williams. He's made a few great pieces, even though he likes to screw them up with his xylophone obsession, but he pretty much just repeats his stuff over and over again.
That said, even though Zimmer is great, Giacchino is better.
I bought a few songs from the inception soundtrack a few days ago. And I must say, it's pretty awesome.
"but isn't that just as real as anything else?" Nope.
"So I guess Star Wars is all just Luke's dream because none of the spaceships are explained how they were invented. That's retarded. People don't sit around and explain every five minutes how iPods were invented, when you set a futuristic world up, all the characters just accept everything because it's common for them, so there's no need for explanation."
That's a completely different situation. There is nothing in this movie that suggests it's in the future except this odd dream technology. It's not like an I Robot world. It looks pretty much like our own. Only there are weird dues ex machina type things that are taken as a given. Like the sedative that increases brain function 20x normal and puts someone out light a light but somehow leaves inner ear function unimpaired so people dreaming not only feel the sensation of falling but when they, it wakes them up and the sedatives effects dissipate immediately.
"There are also two different actors for each pair of children, indicating two years of age."
Well you're right there. Which leaves me wondering why the hell Nolan made the rest of the movie that occurs in the "real" world make zero sense. Either he's deliberately giving evidence to it both being a dream and being reality, which is silly, or he simply didn't give a shit that nothing made sense about the film.
Bottom line: The movie is fun, exciting, and it kind of makes you think, but it's not profound and not a masterpiece. It has flaws,
Those captions are hilarious Replies: 238
Msg #236: On 7/26/2010 at 8:57:59 PM, Adam replied, saying: Either he's deliberately giving evidence to it both being a dream and being reality, which is silly, or he simply didn't give a shit that nothing made sense about the film.
lol
Msg #253: On 7/28/2010 at 6:41:58 PM, IKK_Viper replied, saying:
Msg #254: On 7/28/2010 at 6:58:24 PM, raptor2000 replied to Msg #250, saying: His name was Dom, as in Dominic, not Tom, and it shows the top begin to wobble, hinting that it is about to fall down but then cuts to black before we can see one way or the other, leaving it up to the viewer's interpretation.
Msg #255: On 7/28/2010 at 8:38:14 PM, Amber replied, saying: Yah, sorry, it was Dom.... I heard Tom the whole time for some reason, maybe it was because the audio in the theater I went to sucked. Anyway, I saw the top too. but it never really seemed to fall... the way I figured, if Nolan wanted us to know it was reality, he would have let us seen it fall. Now I know it's more artistic this way, but I really didn't see it wobble enough. It really looked like it wasn't hinting at falling at all... I didn't see "enough" of a wobble... if nolan wanted us to know it was going to fall, he should have had a much more significant wobble. which is why I believe Dom was in a dream, it wasn't going to fall.
Msg #256: On 7/28/2010 at 9:05:40 PM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: If he's in a dream the whole time, the whole "totem test" doesn't even matter.
Seriously, read the rest of this thread if you're interested in the theories around Inception. Replies: 257
Msg #257: On 7/29/2010 at 4:53:54 AM, Narrator replied to Msg #256, saying: "If he's in a dream the whole time, the whole "totem test" doesn't even matter."
Thats true. The totem is irrelevant and I don't know see the significance of focusing on it for the last shot. It doesn't tell us anything about it being a dream or not being a dream.
Msg #258: On 7/29/2010 at 4:15:29 PM, Archaeopteryx replied, saying:
LOL @ everyone arguing about Ellen page being hot.
Msg #262: On 5/31/2015 at 5:30:04 AM, RezForPrez replied, saying: Ugh, you had to pick this one of the two? I fucking hate Inception, outside of the tom hardy/JGL relationship and the hallway right there's nothing else redeeming about this movie at all. Replies: 263
Msg #263: On 5/31/2015 at 3:06:24 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #262, saying: The oldest one was a small thread about the original trailer for Thor.
Msg #264: On 5/31/2015 at 3:18:50 PM, Trainwreck replied, saying: I can't help but love Inception. I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why it's a shitty movie, but I don't care.
EDIT: Speaking of our old posts, here's what I said about Inception in the Dark Knight Rises thread in 2012 (since I wasn't posting here at all when this thread was active):
I don't think any big mainstream movie in the past five or six years has left me more ambivalent than Inception. If it's not Nolan's best film, I think it's probably the most 'Nolanesque' in that it's the perfect example of everything I think of as characteristic of his style: stylizations of film noir thrillers; an obsessive and cheerless fixation on structure; emphasizing the initial cinema experience over reviewings; pretentious self-reflexive metaphors; and action set pieces built around would-be iconic images.
I won't go through a long list of individual praises and complaints, but the biggest problem with the movie is also it's greatest strength. Seeing it for the first time in the theater (or drive-in, in my case) is exciting and mentally engaging because you're trying to figure out the film's puzzle-like structure while the action is going on. Each repeat viewing diminishes this because the more time you spend trying to figure out its structure outside the film itself, the more you realize how shallow and illusory it is. Memento set the tone for a lot of Nolan's career in doing this.
I now like the movie even less than I did then, but I still thought it was awesome when I first saw it at the drive-in. Replies: 267
Msg #267: On 6/1/2015 at 2:57:38 PM, Grizzle replied to Msg #266, saying: Drive-ins still exist? Replies: 268
Msg #268: On 6/1/2015 at 5:17:42 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #267, saying: There are a few in western New York, but the one where I saw Inception is the only good one I've ever seen: "The Sunset Drive-In Theater, located on Route 31, Middleport." I've probably called them 500 times in my life to find out what was playing and the message at the beginning of every showtime recording is permanently burned in my brain.
Msg #269: On 6/10/2015 at 2:01:52 AM, RezForPrez replied, saying: I'm going to see Mad Max again at a drive in this weekend.
Too perfect.
