"Tomorrowland" On 10/10/2014 at 6:31:20 AM, PaulSF started the thread:
Getting a good vibe from this all over. A wonderful one, actually. Obviously a fan of the writer, and Brad Bird gaining Claudio Miranda as his DP feels like the exact right pairing.
Msg #1: On 10/10/2014 at 7:50:37 AM, Evilgrinch replied, saying: Really looking forward to this one. I'm a sucker for fresh, original non-franchise blockbusters that keep the cat in the bag on the marketing front. Brad Bird's uber-Randian rightwing politics are a little strange to me, but I've enjoyed his four previous films nonetheless and can't wait to see what he/Lindelof have cooked up. Replies: 2
Msg #2: On 10/10/2014 at 10:43:31 AM, Ostromite replied to Msg #1, saying: Definitely looking forward to it, but I'm skeptical only because Damon Lindelof is one of the writers.
Grinch, what are you talking about regarding Bird's politics? I looked around online to see if I could find something about it but all I could find was people analyzing The Incredibles as having a conservative agenda. Replies: 3
Msg #3: On 10/10/2014 at 11:43:22 AM, Evilgrinch replied to Msg #2, saying: I read somewhere around the time of his Mission Impossible picture that he's a devout objectivist and I've been seeing the agenda floating around his (otherwise decent) movies ever since. Cream floating to the top stuff, suspicion of authority and government, the few striving for self-improvement etc. I see futurism and glistening skylines in that trailer and it throws up an eyebrow. Replies: 4
Msg #4: On 10/11/2014 at 2:41:48 AM, Narrator replied to Msg #3, saying: Yes I remember in The Incredibles how the main characters only served themselves because, as super people they were indeed the ubermenchen and felt no obligation to help others incapable of saving themselves from the villain.
Msg #5: On 10/14/2014 at 8:28:22 PM, RezForPrez replied, saying: I had a pin just like this, but it just transported me into the parking lot of a gas station in Canada, so I threw it away.
Msg #6: On 5/22/2015 at 7:42:57 PM, PaulSF replied, saying: This is the best film so far this year from where I'm sitting. It might be the most purely anti-cynicism movie I've seen in recent years. It's also an original and creative vision, and celebrates the power of ideas and imagination with some of the best performances of the year so far, and another knockout, thematic score by Michael Giacchino. Only minor third act nitpicks with Brad Birds best film so far along with The Iron Giant. Naturally, this one doesn't have a 98%. 4.5/5
Msg #7: On 5/23/2015 at 2:41:25 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #6, saying: I think it's hilarious that a movie would try to be "purely anti-cynicism" when it's effectively a feature length advertisement for Disney World. Replies: 8, 17
Msg #8: On 5/23/2015 at 7:45:31 PM, PaulSF replied to Msg #7, saying: If you want to perceive it in that way based on the title, I don't know, I'd call that the cynical part. This isn't Transformers. It's not a toy or theme park commercial. It's an engaging, thematic story bursting with heart and creativity. Hell, if it was a commercial for something, I'd say it felt like one focused on getting kids more into science. Replies: 9
Msg #9: On 5/23/2015 at 8:01:19 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #8, saying: Hmm, well, I think you're kind of a chump, my friend, but I won't try to ruin your fun by arguing about it. Replies: 10, 13
Msg #10: On 5/23/2015 at 8:20:06 PM, Velociraptor87 replied to Msg #9, saying: Are the Pirates of the Caribbean series of movies not equally guilty of advertising a theme park? Especially now that the multiple incarnations of the namesake ride have included Johnny Depp animatronics throughout? Replies: 11
It's an optimistic film. That's what I was getting at. It explores the hopeful "wouldn't this be amazing" intention behind what Disney himself had in mind. The film upholds that vision, and takes you on a visually creative, heartfelt ride. I feel sorry for those going in already seeing a theme park advertisement in their head over the creative visions and wonderful characters the film is really about. Replies: 14
Msg #14: On 5/23/2015 at 11:34:31 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #13, saying: If you actually want to argue about it, I will. I was just trying to avoid one of our patented stupid ass dust-ups. Replies: 15
Msg #15: On 5/23/2015 at 11:36:38 PM, PaulSF replied to Msg #14, saying: Cool. I'd much rather talk about a really good movie with someone who's watched it. If you do and feel the urge to challenge anything I said, I wouldn't hesitate.
Msg #16: On 5/23/2015 at 11:44:08 PM, PaulSF replied, saying: Also the irony in trying to avoid a dust-up here or in the future by referring to someone as a "chump", meaning I've been easily won over by a movie, seems more than obviously counter-productive. Just some basic duh shit to consider. Especially when it's patently false. I haven't even enjoyed a single Brad Bird film since TIG.
Msg #17: On 5/24/2015 at 4:21:39 AM, Raptor Vinny replied to Msg #7, saying: Wait....
So movies are produced to MAKE MONEY???!??!!
Thank you for opening our eyes, Ostromite!
Why does it matter if it is an advertisement for something? It can still be anti-cynical in its message.. that's what Disney World is all about. Replies: 18
Msg #18: On 5/24/2015 at 4:02:40 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #17, saying: I know you think that was a pretty sick burn, but you completely missed all the important details in what I said, so you're just making a fool of yourself. If you actually believe Disney "is all about" being anti-cynical and dreaming and all that, you're a chump. That's like believing Pepsi is "all about" having fun and partying because that's the ethos of their television commercials. I really don't think I can even discuss this with either of you if you actually accept things like that and think people like me are assholes for not buying into it. Replies: 19, 20
Msg #19: On 5/24/2015 at 5:45:40 PM, Raptor Vinny replied to Msg #18, saying: That's okay, I think you're a chump too for buying into any movie's message since they are all designed to make money. You've dedicated your life to critically analyzing profit making vehicles LOL. Replies: 22
Msg #20: On 5/24/2015 at 6:51:04 PM, PaulSF replied to Msg #18, saying: You're a cynic. Yes, I 'accept' Disneyland, Scrooge. You can frequently find me at the Magic Kingdom late at night on days off. There's a positive energy, it often feels inspiring, there's gorgeous levels of artistry everywhere, much of which holds up from its grand opening. I disagree with their ongoing price inflation, but the original vision is there. With this movie, you say all you see here is a corporation pushing their sales akin to Pepsi; I saw Bird take a beautiful concept and give it a thematic story, a gorgeously crafted world, and intentions Walt Disney was going for when he dreamt up that segment of the park and what it as meant to represent. Especially in a time when fun parks for families were generally uninspired and sketchy. Making money is a factor in anything, that doesn't mean some of the ideas behind these things, like a Tomorrowland, aren't pure. Brad Bird turned down Star Wars to make this film. Someone like you would never be included in the final shot of the film. I feed the right... you'll see.
Best review for the film that's out there:
Tomorrowland might seem like an advertisement for a Disney theme park, but itís not: itís an advertisement for an ideal. Itís a mission statement that the filmmakers are extending to the whole world: to dream, dream big, and dream optimistically. Because even the act of dreaming can be a whole lot of fun, and the process of making a dream come true is a worthy and exciting adventure in itself. Tomorrowland is fantastic entertainment with a purpose, both honorable and thrilling. http://www.craveonline.com/entertainment/film/reviews/857279-tomorrowland-review-stand-manana
Msg #21: On 5/24/2015 at 10:58:57 PM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: Seriously, most visionaries and inventors try to push their vision through commercial means. That's how you reach a wide market, especially back in the 1920s before you had a massive communication network like the internet.
Imagine criticizing Rage Against the Machine for allowing distribution of CDs in stores and allowing music videos on MTV. It's just incredibly stupid and cynical and naive of reality.
Yes, Disney is trying to sell something. But they still have a business philosophy. They are in the business of selling optimism and happiness. Apparently there is something wrong with that and we are all chumps even though we realize it is a business because we're not blind. But apparently you are for thinking anything you consume artistically isn't driven by an agenda or money.
Msg #22: On 5/26/2015 at 1:02:08 AM, Ostromite replied to Msg #19, saying: I'm not talking about movies making money at the box office to reach a wide audience, you fucking retard, I'm talking about movies serving as advertisements for their parent corporation's brand and products. Regardless of the film's quality or success, it was conceived and produced as a Disney advertisement for a Disney product, and its central themes are the same ideology of imaginative optimism they've been peddling for eighty years.
Oh, Brad Bird really believes in these themes and is totally sincere in his artistry? I bet he does, but so what? That just means Disney hired someone who actually believes in their brand's ethos.
Remember, Walt Disney is dead. "Disney" is not a person or an artist that can have real beliefs or values. It's a media conglomerate worth 179 billion dollars with a huge marketing team and a strict infrastructure designed to ensure an ideological homogeneity in all their products, advertisements, and public materials. Whatever Bird's personal vision may be with this movie, it's a corporate product that he was hired to produce in the context of a long history of Disney products designed to advertise other Disney products and instill in consumers a sense of loyalty to the Disney brand.
I hate a lot of Disney movies, and I love a lot of Disney movies, but the difference is primarily one of aesthetics and personal taste. Their ideology can ring true or false, depending on the artists involved, but if you actually believe that this giant corporation gives a rat's ass about you feeling like a dreamer independent of the fact that you give them money to make you feel that way, if you pay to watch these films and are moved by them and are willing to defend their function as advertisements on aesthetic grounds, you're a fucking chump. You're a sucker. You're no different than the fundamentalist Christian nincompoops who get conned by televangelists and creationist video hucksters.
Like, Paul, do realize what a smug, ignorant cunt you sound like here?
"Someone like you would never be included in the final shot of the film."
Like you would, motherfucker? That's how cults work, you dingus, whether they're the creepy kind with bald guys in white robes or soda pop companies. They make you feel like you're a part of an elite chosen few who "get it", superior to those who dislike the product (or cult leader), and that feeling makes you willing to defend it because your sense of identity is wrapped up in that text (or cult) being considered worthwhile. This is basic rhetoric and psychology and I'm honestly shocked that even you guys don't see it. They got y'all bamboozled and you're acting like I'm the dipshit. Replies: 23, 28
Msg #23: On 5/26/2015 at 1:16:01 AM, Raptor Vinny replied to Msg #22, saying: You are the dipshit for not realizing every single piece of art you consume in a wide market is designed to make money. You somehow think that because this movie was built somewhat as an advertisement for a theme park that it automatically makes it worse than whatever precious films you enjoy. You are the chump for thinking the movies you like are any more pure.
Whatever Bird's personal vision may be with this movie, it's a corporate product that he was hired to produce in the context of a long history of Disney products designed to advertise other Disney products...
Oh gee-whiz-no, it's still all corporate! I get that it's an illusion, and I'm their paying customer on the receiving end of it. I get what you consider so hilarious, too. This is all the depth of some bitter pizza delivery boy fed up with every aspect of life with a Fuck The Man bumper sticker. Explain to me why any of that matters when the end result, be it a night with friends or family at their parks, or at the movies with a filmmaker that believes in what he's doing, results in a spiritually positive evening. As Vincent was trying to get across, that's their business. They do it so well that Universal, whom I'm currently working with, will likely never catch up no matter how hard they actively try (and they do).
I bet he does, but so what? That just means Disney hired someone who---
Uh-huh. Again: what the hell else more is needed? He did it beautifully well with a lot of heart, unique style, and that optimism separating it from a lot of summer movies, and I hope as many children as possible see it. That's why I loved the film. There's even a *mild spoiler for those who care ahead* whole monologue I adored toward the end about today's audience embracing with "gleeful abandon" the apocalypse where mankind fails miserably through video games, movies, etc. It's amusingly in synch with MMFF playing right next door, and it dug into some of the subconscious reasons I can never really get into those kinds of stories enough to be thrilled by them.
Like you would, motherfucker?
I haven't read anything that tells me you have a single creative, inspiring bone in your body. According to you, the films you want to make would cause everyone here to consider you a "pain in the ass". Not just Vincent and I, "everyone". I can assume what kind of stories those are that'd merit that. So yes, quicker than you, Eeyore.
Somehow the things I said about a sweet movie with a penchant toward optimistic and inventive personalities and a nice atmosphere at a park ends up, through your filter, psychobabble regarding cults and how they operate. Nutcase.
Msg #29: On 5/26/2015 at 4:03:35 AM, Velociraptor87 replied, saying: OKAY YOU GUYS CALM THE HELL DOWN.
Ostro is arguing how can a movie's message be sincere when it also profits off of that message of sentimentality.
Paul (and Vinny) are arguing that regardless of the corporate intentions, if it achieves its goal of stirring imagination & wonder, then that's all that matters.
You okay, Lee? You seem a little more willing to resort to name-calling and cursing than usual. You been drinking or something? Or have these two finally made you snap? Replies: 33
Msg #33: On 5/26/2015 at 3:01:25 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #32, saying: I actually had been drinking last night, LOL.
Msg #34: On 5/26/2015 at 3:07:47 PM, Ostromite replied, saying: Also, just in general, after spending basically my entire adult life trying to argue with Vinny and Paul, I'm pretty fed up with it. I always try to be civil, but it never gets me anywhere. It's pretty clear to me that they think I'm, as Paul said, a miserable little bitch, which couldn't be further from the truth in real life, but the two of them bring out the worst in me after all these years, and it's incredibly frustrating trying to have any kind of discussion with someone who just thinks you're a huge asshole. Replies: 35, 38
Msg #35: On 5/26/2015 at 4:17:22 PM, Velociraptor87 replied to Msg #34, saying: I completely relate to this.
Msg #36: On 5/26/2015 at 5:52:39 PM, IngenRaptor replied, saying: this movie sux lol Replies: 37
Msg #37: On 5/26/2015 at 5:59:46 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #36, saying: That's what I've heard from everybody but Paul.
Msg #38: On 5/26/2015 at 6:01:35 PM, Bryan replied to Msg #34, saying: I feel you, bro.
Msg #39: On 5/26/2015 at 6:15:43 PM, PaulSF replied, saying: I'm not going to put much more time into this unless Tomorrowland enters the discussion, but it's funny to me that you have the nerve to say "I always try to be civil." Is this a joke? You came into this thread and immediately belittled my "anti-cynicism" remark and then called me a "chump" when I disagreed. That's not civil, it's something an asshole does to get a rise out of someone. Then you proceeded to get into a drunken stupor and babbled about cults instead of recognizing a valid point that any sane individual could recognize, and has already. Stop acting like a miserable asshole for no decent reason, and you might not be considered a miserable asshole.
Does anyone else honestly disagree with this? If so, that's just frightening. Replies: 40, 43
Msg #40: On 5/26/2015 at 6:19:33 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #39, saying: I obviously wasn't talking about this thread, but I think it's funny that almost everyone on this board calls people dickheads and assholes and faggots and morons all the time but someone gets upset when, once in a blue moon, I call somebody a chump or a knucklehead. Replies: 41, 42
Msg #41: On 5/26/2015 at 6:26:35 PM, Raptor Vinny replied to Msg #40, saying: Usually the people we call assholes and faggots we're friends with or we understand they're just being over the top. And regardless, saying those types of things doesn't make the discussion civil. It's understood that the discussion is anything but civil between all participants.
If I go into a thread and laugh at someone's opinion and call them a chump I'm not going to expect a peaceful response out of anyone on this forum unless they're a huge pussy. Replies: 44
Msg #42: On 5/26/2015 at 6:28:45 PM, PaulSF replied to Msg #40, saying: I just felt in this case it was kind of unwarranted. Sometimes I just want to talk about how a piece of work made me feel without being called a sucker. Movies, theme parks, it's all a big corporate illusion. They make their money off of tapping into our emotions, but I can think of far worse machines to feed it to (certain universities I could name) when the end result is something really nice, and can go a long way in inspiring others to engage with something constructive. Replies: 45
Msg #43: On 5/26/2015 at 6:30:02 PM, JPwonderboy replied to Msg #39, saying: I agree wholeheartedly.
Msg #44: On 5/26/2015 at 6:30:07 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #41, saying: That's funny, because I could have sworn this board has a long history of big, stupid arguments where people get all worked up, but I guess we were all just buddies goofing around and nobody ever meant any of that.
Also, Vinny, come on, dude. Other than maybe Rez, who's basically a cartoon character half the time, you've consistently been the rudest guy on this board for years now, and you know it. Don't try to eke some kind of moral victory out of this. Replies: 62, 74
Msg #45: On 5/26/2015 at 10:25:36 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #42, saying: Wait, did you just say that you think it's better to give your money to Disney for making you feel good than giving it to a university for educating you? Replies: 46, 48, 51
Msg #46: On 5/26/2015 at 10:39:14 PM, Trainwreck replied to Msg #45, saying: Depends on where you go, Ostro. I quit attending a "typical" Master's program so that I could devote my full energy into my ongoing study at Prager University. I don't need to keep paying hundreds per credit hour for liberal indoctrination. Replies: 47
Msg #47: On 5/26/2015 at 11:44:46 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #46, saying: No offense, but Dennis Prager is a moron and that "university" of his looks like a joke. Were you joking? I mean, if you have a problem with actual universities for the liberal bias of their faculty, that's an organization that's actually designed from the ground up to promote conservative political and social values. Talk about indoctrination. Replies: 53
Msg #48: On 5/27/2015 at 12:12:22 AM, PaulSF replied to Msg #45, saying: I, among more than a few others I attended Full Sail down here with, have some serious issues with them. I myself only recently finished paying them off, and outside of some successful networking, they didn't earn that kind of money for their degree. Yes, I feel better about supporting Disney than those scammers. This also has nothing to do with Tomorrowland, so that's the end of this topic. Stop jumping to dopey broad conclusions. Replies: 49
Msg #49: On 5/27/2015 at 12:15:25 AM, Ostromite replied to Msg #48, saying: Well, okay, that's fair because Full Sail is an unaccredited for-profit school, but I don't think I jumped to a dopey conclusion based on what you said (especially since I didn't state a conclusion, I asked a question). Replies: 50
Msg #50: On 5/27/2015 at 12:24:21 AM, PaulSF replied to Msg #49, saying: Fair enough. Yes, they're awful. My friend Joe Mason has ended up leaving them off his resume, claiming to have been laughed at more than once. Thankfully his sheer talent as a storyboard artist has spoke louder than that degree. Nothing about their program lived up to its promise. I wish I had gone to Dave School.
Msg #51: On 5/27/2015 at 12:32:28 AM, Narrator replied to Msg #45, saying: You don't give universities money for education you give them money for CERTIFICATION HAHAHA and legitimacy. Literally all the information and educational material is free or costs much much less than getting a full degree, but just learning it doesn't mean much unless you have an official institution vouch for the fact that you did, indeed, learn it, at least, to most employers. That's not even to mention that if you remove the benefits of citification, self education and real world experience are actually much better than what you get in a lecture.
Not that I identify strongly with each and every liberal/progressive/left-wing/whatever causes, but shit man. I mean fuck.
Msg #56: On 5/27/2015 at 12:57:04 AM, Trainwreck replied to Msg #54, saying: Don't feel bad, I intentionally toned down the language in my post to see if I could successfully troll you. I don't even know if the trollface is necessary in my second post, because his face is already so close to it. It's going to be my new troll face. Replies: 57
Msg #57: On 5/27/2015 at 1:01:53 AM, Ostromite replied to Msg #56, saying: I actually assumed it must be a troll at first because I didn't think you liked Dennis Prager and it didn't seem like something you'd do, but I thought, "no, Trainwreck usually gets more hyperbolic when he's being sarcastic, maybe I had him figured wrong."
I am very much in favor of using Dennis Prager as a trollface.
Msg #58: On 5/27/2015 at 1:54:55 AM, fordprefect replied to Msg #51, saying: Citification wtf? Also, aside from everything Ostro said, you're also paying for access to the hundreds of kids who are studying as well. It's an environment you'll never recreate with some pirated textbooks.
Everyone on the internet thinks they're Will Hunting smh Replies: 61, 66
Msg #59: On 5/27/2015 at 2:55:04 AM, Narrator replied to Msg #52, saying: With the exception of some of the sciences, it is true, and that's because jobs in those fields usually (but not always) remain in academia. For things like writing, filmmaking, business, entrepreneurship (wow I spelled that right on the first try, go me!) and even the social sciences, formal education is inferior. Replies: 60, 83
Msg #60: On 5/27/2015 at 3:00:41 AM, Ostromite replied to Msg #59, saying: Jobs in the sciences usually stay in academia? What? Also, even just looking at fine arts and the humanities, sure, you learn a lot in "real world" experience that you can't get at a university about how to paint and write and make films, but in college you learn things to paint, write, and make films about. You're completely deluded if you think formal university education is inferior to private study.
Msg #61: On 5/27/2015 at 3:57:20 AM, Raptor Vinny replied to Msg #58, saying: Ford, Narrator is citified to talk about this stuff alright
Msg #62: On 5/27/2015 at 3:58:37 AM, Raptor Vinny replied to Msg #44, saying: Ehh I don't think I have been lately
You made this bitch cry I hope you're happy Replies: 64
Msg #64: On 5/27/2015 at 4:58:31 AM, Ostromite replied to Msg #63, saying: Everyone in the comments on that video is acting like that woman broke down in tears and caused a huge scene but it was, like, two seconds of her pretending to cry. Did you see this on fucking Reddit or something? Replies: 67
Msg #65: On 5/27/2015 at 6:54:06 AM, JPwonderboy replied, saying: Kevin Pollak kicks ass. Just discovered his Youtube show the other night, watched a 2-hour interview with Eli Roth.
Always liked Kevin Pollak.
Msg #66: On 5/27/2015 at 7:25:02 AM, Narrator replied to Msg #58, saying: you know groups of people can get together without spending a hundred grand, right? It's not about reading books either, it's about real world experience and that gives you things to write about, ostro, not sitting in a lecture hall. I'm not saying that university isn't beneficial, but it isn't beneficial unless you also take an interest in the subjects you study outside of school. School gives you knowledge but it also gives you overconfidence and the illusion of knowledge about things, especially in the social sciences. Replies: 82
Msg #67: On 5/27/2015 at 4:53:56 PM, Raptor Vinny replied to Msg #64, saying: She wasn't pretending, she actually did cry slightly for a couple seconds... nevermind you're not Dan, you're the loser awkwardly saying "good acting" lmao.
If you think I'm wrong, watch the Johnny Knoxville interview where they talk about it and she talks about how her dad used to take her there and it DID upset her when he said that shit.
Msg #68: On 5/27/2015 at 7:54:23 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #67, saying: Well, okay, either way, I don't get why you posted it other than to make fun of some woman who has an emotional connection to Disney because of her father. Lots of people have specific emotional ties to experiences with Disney like that, but lots of people also hate Disney and its phoniness and hypocrisy. You're acting like it's weird to dislike and criticize Disney, which is part of my point.
Narrator, it seems like your problem with university education is that it costs too much in the United States. That's true, but the problem isn't that the education isn't worth the money, it's that the systems we have in place to pay for college are totally backwards and embarrassing. That doesn't make universities themselves any less valuable or irreplaceable. It'd be like me saying automobiles are unnecessary because bicycles exist when gas prices get too high for my taste. Replies: 69
Msg #69: On 5/27/2015 at 10:25:40 PM, Raptor Vinny replied to Msg #68, saying: I'm not making fun of her, Dan's a fucking dick! Although it is a little odd that she is so attached but I can see why if her dad took her there a lot.
I can see why people hate Disney, sure. I just don't think it's worth getting worked up over it. Millions of kids go and have a genuinely good experience because it is fun. So what if they make money from it? People pay good money to have a good experience, that's how like every vacation ever works. And yeah I know Disney has done some shady shit but if you're gonna hate that you might as well hate every single company on the planet. The experience they are selling at their THEME PARK and in this one specific movie is still fun though. Replies: 70
Msg #70: On 5/27/2015 at 10:49:12 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #69, saying: You don't get it. It's not about the money. It's about the ideology. If you don't understand the distinction intuitively, I really can't talk about it because I frankly don't have the time to explain rhetorical theory enough for you get what I'm saying.
Msg #71: On 5/28/2015 at 12:00:48 AM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: Lol ok bro Replies: 72
Msg #72: On 5/28/2015 at 1:25:29 AM, Ostromite replied to Msg #71, saying: Act "Lol ok bro" all you want, the fact of the matter is that I really don't think you can grasp what I'm saying without me explaining a whole bunch of other shit first, which I'm not going to do. I'm not trying to be condescending, but I have an extensive education in this kind of thing, and the problem is that you don't understand what I'm saying because we don't share a vocabulary on the subject. Even if you would ultimately disagree with me anyway, I can't really talk about it as is without you misinterpreting it (such as my use of the word "cult" earlier in this thread, or what I mean by ideology). Replies: 73
Msg #73: On 5/28/2015 at 3:12:52 AM, Raptor Vinny replied to Msg #72, saying: I understood what you meant, I just thought it was completely off base and nonsensical and a bullshit psychological assessment when you don't know two shits about Paul's personal history. Even I don't. But I know Disney didn't brainwash Paul, Paul just hates your cynical attitude because that's how he was raised.
Don't even pretend you don't want to do this Replies: 84
Msg #81: On 5/29/2015 at 5:04:20 AM, RezForPrez replied, saying: So not entirely unrelated, this spurred me to watch Escape from Tomorrow, the stealthily shot film made inside Magic Kingdom and Epcot. I was expecting a really shit film and instead found it surprisingly well made and just fantastic almost all around. There were a few moments in the last 20 minutes or so where the film sort of devolved into what I expected the entire time- that is to say, poor quality cam footage of someone running around Disneyworld where I can't tell what the fuck is going on- and the end is almost head scratchingly stupid- but I had fewer problems with this movie than I do most big budget releases. I went in for how the film was made, but stayed because it was surprisingly good for the majority of the film. If Tomorrowland is built on the ideas Disney is trying to sell you, Escape from Tomorrow digs underneath them- literally- to try and save you from it. Awesome stuff.
Msg #82: On 5/29/2015 at 6:09:54 PM, fordprefect replied to Msg #66, saying: Yeah but I'm not justifying the (American) price, I'm saying that the environment of learning that you get at universities, along with the access to the faculty, teaching, and facilities, adds a lot more value than just certifying people.
Msg #83: On 5/29/2015 at 6:17:26 PM, fordprefect replied to Msg #59, saying: With the exception of some of the sciences, it is true, and that's because jobs in those fields usually (but not always) remain in academia.
For things like writing, filmmaking, business, entrepreneurship (wow I spelled that right on the first try, go me!) and even the social sciences, formal education is inferior.
School gives you knowledge but it also gives you overconfidence and the illusion of knowledge about things, especially in the social sciences.
This part is the most important point about this whole thing so what's your confusion? Replies: 87
Msg #87: On 5/31/2015 at 9:38:08 PM, Ostromite replied to Msg #86, saying: I think it's that you seem to be saying that people who get educated will think they know more than they do and become overly confident in themselves, and that, therefore, it is preferable to not receive the education to begin with.
1) Once again Disney has no idea how to advertise something that isn't connected to Marvel. I mean, seriously... unless you actively searched there was no way to know what the hell this movie was about based on the trailers and commercials. I get wanted to keep the mystery and wonder... but you have to give me something. Some idea of what the hell is going on other than a teen grabbing a pin and George Clooney saying a line of dialogue.
Yes, you don't want to over-saturate the audience and give away everything. I get that. But Disney clearly had no idea what the hell to do when it came to this film and how to showcase it and build word-of-mouth. I am reminded of that Abram's alien movie a couple years back where he was so obsessed with hiding everything that no one had any idea what the hell the film was other than 'alien escapes' film. I honestly believe Tomorrowland would have seen more opening-day sales had they bothered to advertise it more and let people know what it was about.
But nope... just like John Carter before it Disney produced a big budget CGI-life action film and can't be bothered to promote it.
2) I love Brad Bird's stuff. i do. Honest. That said... one someone pointed out that he has a bit of an... issue... with overly promoting Randism. For those that don't know, and I am sure someone like Ostro can point out where I am getting the details wrong, Randism refers to the idea that only a few chosen should have power and those with that power must then change the world. A prime example is "The Incredibles", which has this in two ways: first, that the family is forced to lower themselves to the level of mere mortals and this harms them and the world, and second Syndrome is the bad guy for believing that EVERYONE should be super and that is wrong.
Tomorrowland has the same 'Atlas Shrugged' feel... that ordinary man can't save the world, oh no... only a select few, the specials, can do it and they are so far above us. It's not a very good taste in the mouth, at least for me, and once I started to notice it in Bird's work it is hard not to notice (for example, some argue that Ratatouille is basically 'The Fountainhead' with cooking replacing architecture)and I can definitely see it here.
Msg #89: On 6/10/2015 at 2:01:09 AM, RezForPrez replied, saying: Anybody want to buy some disney pins? 3.95 with shipping and some loose hair.
Msg #90: On 1/28/2016 at 11:50:24 PM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: Just watched the movie finally.
It was excellent. Even if there was a bit of Randism with the specials needing to save the world I mean... you could argue that with literally thousands of movies I guess. Big budget movies usually focus on a few characters who are usually facing high stakes ie saving the world.
Anyway... I loved how optimistic its message was. What a breath of fresh air. Ostro you can call us all chumps however much you want but whatever. I'm a chump. A big dumb happy chump. Don't care. This movie was really good, really well paced and acted and scored and shot with an uplifting message. Athena's actress was amazing, I totally bought in to her character, usually kids her age are fucking annoying twats but she was the best part of the movie.
As for it being "a giant ad"... literally only the title was an ad. The movie seriously had absolutely nothing to do with Tomorrowland itself, it just shared the same philosophy as Tomorrowland so I guess that's why they named it that.
The fucking ending with Athena and Frank... that shit was just incredibly well written and dialogued. Holy fuck. One of the greatest goddamn lines in cinematic history made me laugh my ass off while crying. Even if Disney is controlling everything about the movie they're not the ones who came up with shit like that, they just approved it, and they would have been fucking idiots not to because it was brilliant.
Msg #91: On 1/29/2016 at 12:02:35 AM, Raptor Vinny replied, saying: Also if Ostro actually went and saw the damn movie he'd realize Disney had to have largely kept their hands out of this. You think they'd normally approve visions of nuclear war and shit, and a bunch of people getting shot and dying, and a political message about the state of the world? This was a very unusual Disney film in that sense.
Msg #92: On 2/4/2016 at 12:57:47 AM, Cameron replied, saying: I agree entirely with you Vinny. Major props to that actress and Clooney. It could have been really creepy, some of their dialogue and themes with a man his age and the kid, it was a thin line but they pulled it off with it feeling genuine
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